The Paul Lambert thread - poll reset after our capitulation to Hull

[saunders_heroes]

I'm sorry, I'm not having this. Westwood played quite a few very good passes, especially to the wing and especially in the second half to Albrighton. He was our best midfielder today - the others gave the ball away like spoiled kids throwing away toys. Westwood did his job and then had to do the job of other players who weren't on the pitch. These are the same complaints we used to hear about Petrov - sideways passing, does nothing going forward, all that stuff - and while he's nowhere near as good as Petrov he's better than a hundred hard-man morons like the much-pined NRCs you hear mentioned.

Stop it. Petrov was infinitely better than Westwood, who is no more than a League 1 player who is totally out of his depth in the Premier League. Certain fans have been trying to talk up Westwood since he arrived at Villa, some of them laughably even tried to talk him up for England. I was one of Petrov's biggest supporters and he was a fine player who rarely if ever lost possession of the football and made intelligent passes to his own team mates (a novel concept). Westwood's forte is to pass sideways and backwards and sod all else. They're like chalk and cheese.

[PaulMcGrathsNo5Shirt]

Why is it Lambert can't see that we shouldn't play all three of Gabby, Benteke and Weimann at home? It gives us no balance and little width. He needs to have the balls to leave one of them out and play with some proper width at home. He needs to play 4-5-1 with Gabby down the left wing with either Albrighton/Bacuna down the right. If he then played Delph, Westwood and one from Sylla/Gardner/Bacuna in the middle we'd hopefully have more of the ball.

[Monty]

I'm sorry, I'm not having this. Westwood played quite a few very good passes, especially to the wing and especially in the second half to Albrighton. He was our best midfielder today - the others gave the ball away like spoiled kids throwing away toys. Westwood did his job and then had to do the job of other players who weren't on the pitch. These are the same complaints we used to hear about Petrov - sideways passing, does nothing going forward, all that stuff - and while he's nowhere near as good as Petrov he's better than a hundred hard-man morons like the much-pined NRCs you hear mentioned.

Westwood was rubbish, like he usually is. He is not up to the job. You may think he is the best of a bad bunch. As for 'hard man morons' it is hard men we need.

The attitude which desires 'hard men' is as much a part of the problem as anything Paul Lambert does. Tough players come in any shape, but players who kick and do nothing else are entirely useless because they give away both the ball and free kicks. It's totally outdated thinking.

I'm sorry, I'm not having this. Westwood played quite a few very good passes, especially to the wing and especially in the second half to Albrighton. He was our best midfielder today - the others gave the ball away like spoiled kids throwing away toys. Westwood did his job and then had to do the job of other players who weren't on the pitch. These are the same complaints we used to hear about Petrov - sideways passing, does nothing going forward, all that stuff - and while he's nowhere near as good as Petrov he's better than a hundred hard-man morons like the much-pined NRCs you hear mentioned.

Stop it. Petrov was infinitely better than Westwood, who is no more than a League 1 player who is totally out of his depth in the Premier League. Certain fans have been trying to talk up Westwood since he arrived at Villa, some of them laughably even tried to talk him up for England. I was one of Petrov's biggest supporters and he was a fine player who rarely if ever lost possession of the football and made intelligent passes to his own team mates (a novel concept). Westwood's forte is to pass sideways and backwards and sod all else. They're like chalk and cheese.

You're talking nonsense based on the match your fury persuaded you to see, not on the match you actually saw. Of course Westwood isn't as good as Petrov, but his job is the same and he does just fine in it. You can't blame the lack of a playmaker on Westwood anymore than you can blame a lack of food on the starving man.

[Dave Clark Five]

I'm sorry, I'm not having this. Westwood played quite a few very good passes, especially to the wing and especially in the second half to Albrighton. He was our best midfielder today - the others gave the ball away like spoiled kids throwing away toys. Westwood did his job and then had to do the job of other players who weren't on the pitch. These are the same complaints we used to hear about Petrov - sideways passing, does nothing going forward, all that stuff - and while he's nowhere near as good as Petrov he's better than a hundred hard-man morons like the much-pined NRCs you hear mentioned.

Westwood was rubbish, like he usually is. He is not up to the job. You may think he is the best of a bad bunch. As for 'hard man morons' it is hard men we need.

The attitude which desires 'hard men' is as much a part of the problem as anything Paul Lambert does. Tough players come in any shape, but players who kick and do nothing else are entirely useless because they give away both the ball and free kicks. It's totally outdated thinking.

I'm sorry, I'm not having this. Westwood played quite a few very good passes, especially to the wing and especially in the second half to Albrighton. He was our best midfielder today - the others gave the ball away like spoiled kids throwing away toys. Westwood did his job and then had to do the job of other players who weren't on the pitch. These are the same complaints we used to hear about Petrov - sideways passing, does nothing going forward, all that stuff - and while he's nowhere near as good as Petrov he's better than a hundred hard-man morons like the much-pined NRCs you hear mentioned.

Stop it. Petrov was infinitely better than Westwood, who is no more than a League 1 player who is totally out of his depth in the Premier League. Certain fans have been trying to talk up Westwood since he arrived at Villa, some of them laughably even tried to talk him up for England. I was one of Petrov's biggest supporters and he was a fine player who rarely if ever lost possession of the football and made intelligent passes to his own team mates (a novel concept). Westwood's forte is to pass sideways and backwards and sod all else. They're like chalk and cheese.

You're talking nonsense based on the match your fury persuaded you to see, not on the match you actually saw. Of course Westwood isn't as good as Petrov, but his job is the same and he does just fine in it. You can't blame the lack of a playmaker on Westwood anymore than you can blame a lack of food on the starving man.

'Outdated thinking'. You know better than me then. What did you think of Joe Bennett turning sideways, flinching out of a tackle? Is that what you want?

[saunders_heroes]

I saw lots of sideways passing from Westwood today, just like the vast majority of every game he ever plays for us. If you want to pretend he's a talent well good for you, but you won't fool me

[Monty]

As I say, tough and hard man are different things. It's outdated to buy a player because 'he's big and can kick people'.

Also, nothing to do with Joe Bennett is what I nor anyone wants. Even Granny Bennett doesn't want to see him.

S_H, Westwood is good at what he does, spreading the play as quickly as he can. He's not Xavi but he is at least as good as Leon Britton, who does just fine in the Premier League given the right system.

[pauliewalnuts]

Days like today make me feel that the problem is more about the manager than the players. Which isn't the way I usually see it.

[Irish villain]

Whatever system we play the players we have aren't good enough. Benteke, Vlaar, Guzan and Delph are the only players who would probably  get in the first team at a top ten club. The rest are pretty average, squad players at best.

[KevinGage]

Westwood is not -and will never- be the type of player that you build a side around. 

A water carrier, but all good teams need them.  Is he even good enough to fulfill that basic function?  On the basis of the best part of two seasons, I would say no. At least, not in the top flight.

He might be suffering from a lack of quality alongside him (understatement). But players with that certain something about them would have shown it by now.

I do get the desire for continuity.  In an ideal world, I'd want to give PL at least until the summer.  Get something approximating 2/3 midfielders signed and hope the improvement is drastic. 

The issue with that is that the way he sets sides up, I don't think an extra two or three decent players will make a huge difference.  He liked his big two lumps up forward at Norwich. He seems to be very keen to do that here too.  That type of thinking is doomed to produce the type of approach we have seen recently.  His Norwich side were pretty wank in possession, and dire defensively (cast your minds back to a time when a side led by McLeish put three past Norwich, easily the most disorganised rabble that came to VP that season).

In the interests of continuity (plus fear of who Lerner and Faulkner could dig up as a replacement) I could see an argument for Lambert being given until at least Oct/Nov. Give him ample opportunity to fill the extremely obvious weakspots in midfield next transfer window. No more excuses.

But talk of a three year contract at this stage is fucking lunacy.

I don't think we'll be fighting off interest from bigger clubs for his services next season, in all honesty. We can afford to wait it out a bit.

[PeterWithesShin]

Not even I would give him a new contract right now and i'm a right cheerful look for the positive in anything type.

[Chinchilla Bathhouse]

You've got one of the biggest clubs in the country, but you have to get all Geroge Osbourne on it for at least two seasons and cut to the bone. Tempting and terrifying. O'Neill certainly lacked the bottle, maybe I am being harsh on Martinez.

Very harsh. If football management was about 'bottle',wouldn't Leeds have got a top manager who was 'up for the challenge' by now?

Well that's Ads' argument blown clear out of the water.

Ha, that's a laugh SH, as if you were ever going to entertain a moment's thought of even trying to understand it.

I see Ads' point.  To answer IV, Leeds wouldn't have got a top manager, no.  A proven, successful, established "top" manager would not have any need to take on such a challenge.  Or, indeed, Aston Villa in June 2012.  The Villa job required someone willing to put their reputation on the line; not some Megson-shaped lump from the managerial merry-go-round, not someone looking for a last pay day, someone with potential, hunger and a big bloody ego to step into a massive club and start again from scratch.  I don't think you can deny that it takes bottle to do that, and for all his faults, I think it should be recognised that Lambert had the balls to take on the task.   Failure could have dire consequences for his entire managerial career, but he backed himself to do the job.  Whether he was right to do so will be proven in time. 

It might be worth remembering that back in 1987 we were in a much worse situation than this, and were saved by a man at a very similar point in his career.  Graham Taylor was 43 and had built his reputation guiding an unfashionable club to successive promotions and establishing them in the top league.  We were his first big club.  He had a lot of expectation on his shoulders and a lot to lose, but he was up for the challenge.  He had the bottle to put his neck on the line, and how glad we are that he did.  I'm not saying that Lambert will achieve as much as Taylor, merely that sometimes someone has to take that risk.  Bottle is involved in that.  It's not the only thing, but it's not to be underestimated.   

Regarding Martinez, I wouldn't accuse him of bottling the challenge, as I don't know what his reasons were for turning us down.  I do think though that the job he took on at Everton was a whole lot more straightforward than the one he would have faced with us. 

[Jaffa]

Apologies - my first post of the millennium, there are to many school boy errors happening to go into deep meaningful... Oh fuck it!! If Learner can't see what the fuck is going on!!! He might as well kiss bye to £40 million quid, come the 13th April when Palace send us down,  C U Next Tuesday Learner....

[David_Nab]

Given our precarious league position I think talk of a new contract is utter madness..I mean where the fuck is he actually going to go ?It's not he is being talked up for jobs elsewhere and we need to make sure we don't lose him.

The last 2 league games have been complete crap and alot of that is down to his poor tactics.TBH I would sack him just for thinking he can play Holt and Benteke together and just hit long balls.

We lose to Cardiff and thats 0 points from 9 against including 2 teams below us in the league the only clubheaded piece of paper he should be getting is one of termination of contract not an extension.

[robbo1874]

Why is it Lambert can't see that we shouldn't play all three of Gabby, Benteke and Weimann at home? It gives us no balance and little width. He needs to have the balls to leave one of them out and play with some proper width at home. He needs to play 4-5-1 with Gabby down the left wing with either Albrighton/Bacuna down the right. If he then played Delph, Westwood and one from Sylla/Gardner/Bacuna in the middle we'd hopefully have more of the ball.

we can keep hold of the ball quite well at times. We just haven't got a bloody clue what to do with it going forward, unless its a quick break from either Guzan, or if we disrupt an attack.

[ROBBO]

Bringing Holt on had shades of MON about it, the situation we were in the last player most managers would have bought on would have been Holt but just like MON you could set your clock for the substitution and the player. I understood him coming on when we were defending a lead and slowing the game down but that wasn't the case yesterday. He did nothing.