To What End?

[not3bad]

This season I started to become really depressed that the plan included a "no glory" element which allowed the board and the owner to regard the simple survival in the Premiership as a legitimate and adequate ambition so long as the gates held up and the costs went down.

This is the key for me. It upsets me that "Premiership survival" is considered good. What's the point of turning up each year and aiming to be 10th.

So you've been told we'll be aiming for 10th next year and the year after?  Where did you get this information?

[Tom_Mc9?]

I don't understand this notion that "Isn't it terrible that success is now avoiding a relegation battle?" What people seem to ignore is that this season it is. We've been shite for god knows how long. Next season we'll probably aim to get ourselves  into the top ten. In essence I'm agreeing with everything that Concrete John has said, but the people who say sensationalist comments believing that Villa have sunken into depths previously unthinkable is way off the mark.
What I do nowadays is go down the match, enjoy seeing my mates, have a drink or two. If we win, great, if not, it's nice to see my mates. We're not going to win the league so I could spend my life being upset about it or I could get over it.

[brian green]

I envy you.   I wish I did not care as much as I do.   Seeing my mates is not enough incentive to drive several hundred miles round trip to every game (except Norwich which is only a hundred and twenty miles).

[pauliewalnuts]

This season I started to become really depressed that the plan included a "no glory" element which allowed the board and the owner to regard the simple survival in the Premiership as a legitimate and adequate ambition so long as the gates held up and the costs went down.

This is the key for me. It upsets me that "Premiership survival" is considered good. What's the point of turning up each year and aiming to be 10th.

So you've been told we'll be aiming for 10th next year and the year after?  Where did you get this information?

Obviously, nobody has told him that, but we all form our own opinions about what the ambitions of the club are, and those opinions tend to be shaped by what we see them doing.

It's difficult to look at the events of the last 2 or 3 years and really say we're being set up with any ambition. The board don't even talk to us about ambition any more, let alone actually do anything to suggest there is any.

There's also a tendency I notice of people shifting their opinions to avoid facing reality. The most recent thing I have seen is several people saying "well, I reckon that the thing they're waiting for is for us to have shifted the last of the bomb squad" - as if that's somehow the most obvious reason we're holding back, rather than just a handy excuse for the way things are at the moment.

It doesn't even stand the most rudimentary of examinations. Of the "Bomb Squad" (which incidentally is not only a situation the club created entirely itself, but is a situation lots of clubs have, in that it is basically players we don't want any more), Given has been on loan, Bent is at Fulham for the rest of the season, and Ireland is actually gone, leaving Hutton. That's not really the most convincing obstacles to ambition, surely?

Then there's that other one, whereby, having stabilised the wage bill, what we're going to do is actually start to build it up again, and embark on some serious spending. They've (the powers that be) spent the last three years talking about how important it is we are self sufficient, how the books have to be balanced. I think a lot of people are going to be disappointed when they find out that financial prudence isn't just a transitional thing.

Don't get me wrong, I entirely understand why people do that, and I totally understand that this is only my opinion, and there's every chance that I am wrong, but I honestly can't see anything, not one single credible piece of evidence at the moment, that suggests we have any ambition to return to the fringes of the top six. We might hope for it, yes, but that's not the same thing. I mean ambition in terms of actually acting in a way which suggests we are serious about making that happen.

I'd love to be convinced otherwise, though.

I really would. I just want to see something to make me feel that way.

I'm not even one of the miserablist fringe, either, I've supported and backed Randy through periods where he was getting huge amounts of stick, but it looks like there's just no feelgood factor, no ambition, no urge for improvement, nothing positive coming out of the club these days.

if you have a few people on here saying the above, you feel that it's just one of many arguing factions that we have on here around pretty much any topic, but it's not, it seems to me that the large majority of people on here feel pretty disillusioned at the moment, and they're not all miserable, shouty mentalists, are they?

[TheSandman]

+1.

Not very uplifting, but I agree that it is the situation we are in.

[Toronto Villa]

I'm looking beyond this season and of the belief the our ambition is tied to where are right now and certainly tied to where we have been recently. I certainly believe, and like you this is just my opinion, that once this season is over that our ambitions will be to improve every season. That we will not just buy players to keep us ticking over and that we actually will return to buying players that make a difference again, and not almost exclusively from the bargain basement. I have nothing other than my gut feeling that this is what will happen, but I cannot believe that Aston Villa will just coast along from here on in. I think that we took a very definite position on our financial situation, and despite the pain it has caused we stuck with it. But that coming out on the other side will allow us to operate as a competitive side again.

I too might be completely wrong, but that's what I believe and furthermore it is helping me get through this season.

[Chipsticks]

I'm looking beyond this season and of the belief the our ambition is tied to where are right now and certainly tied to where we have been recently. I certainly believe, and like you this is just my opinion, that once this season is over that our ambitions will be to improve every season. That we will not just buy players to keep us ticking over and that we actually will return to buying players that make a difference again, and not almost exclusively from the bargain basement. I have nothing other than my gut feeling that this is what will happen, but I cannot believe that Aston Villa will just coast along from here on in. I think that we took a very definite position on our financial situation, and despite the pain it has caused we stuck with it. But that coming out on the other side will allow us to operate as a competitive side again.

I too might be completely wrong, but that's what I believe and furthermore it is helping me get through this season.

Completely agree, TV. I too go with this on a gut feeling, but I'm also convinced that this is the 'plan' that we keep hearing about. And a sensible one at that.

[Mister E]

I'm looking beyond this season and of the belief the our ambition is tied to where are right now and certainly tied to where we have been recently. I certainly believe, and like you this is just my opinion, that once this season is over that our ambitions will be to improve every season. That we will not just buy players to keep us ticking over and that we actually will return to buying players that make a difference again, and not almost exclusively from the bargain basement. I have nothing other than my gut feeling that this is what will happen, but I cannot believe that Aston Villa will just coast along from here on in. I think that we took a very definite position on our financial situation, and despite the pain it has caused we stuck with it. But that coming out on the other side will allow us to operate as a competitive side again.

I too might be completely wrong, but that's what I believe and furthermore it is helping me get through this season.

This is where I am.
Lambert has been asked to clean the place up, is doing so and will get the chance to do the rebuilding job; hence the new contract talks.

Re the bomb squad, Hutton, Given, Bent and NZ are still on the books, still costing us loads (probably the best part of £ 150k per week in net wages, even with contributions from Fulham) and need to be removed for progress to be made,IMO.

[Concrete John]

Up until last month when Ireland left, we had 4 of our highest earners contributing absolutely nothing to the side.  That simply HAS to have an impact on our recruitment.  Two may be out on loan, but we're probably still paying the majority of their wages, especially Given's.

The theory is that if we still spend aroud £20m in the summer, but only on 3-4 players, then we'll start looking a threat to the Euro spots again.  The higher wages such players would be looking for can be found in the bomb squad.

Maths wise, if works and make sense.  We just now need to wait and see if they do it. 

[not3bad]

This season I started to become really depressed that the plan included a "no glory" element which allowed the board and the owner to regard the simple survival in the Premiership as a legitimate and adequate ambition so long as the gates held up and the costs went down.

This is the key for me. It upsets me that "Premiership survival" is considered good. What's the point of turning up each year and aiming to be 10th.

So you've been told we'll be aiming for 10th next year and the year after?  Where did you get this information?

Obviously, nobody has told him that, but we all form our own opinions about what the ambitions of the club are, and those opinions tend to be shaped by what we see them doing.

It's difficult to look at the events of the last 2 or 3 years and really say we're being set up with any ambition. The board don't even talk to us about ambition any more, let alone actually do anything to suggest there is any.

After MON left the next two seasons were pretty much a write off since the club were literally all over the place.  When Mcleish was sacked, the club visibly changed its policy.  It is now trying something different.  Will it work?  I don't have a clue.  But the one thing I'm not doing is making assumptions.  I also note that most people agreed that mid table would be an acceptable target for this season.  Why then talk about finishing 10th every season?  If it looks like we're heading, or even aiming, for the same position next year then fair enough.

[edgysatsuma89]

This season I started to become really depressed that the plan included a "no glory" element which allowed the board and the owner to regard the simple survival in the Premiership as a legitimate and adequate ambition so long as the gates held up and the costs went down.

This is the key for me. It upsets me that "Premiership survival" is considered good. What's the point of turning up each year and aiming to be 10th.

So you've been told we'll be aiming for 10th next year and the year after?  Where did you get this information?

Obviously, nobody has told him that, but we all form our own opinions about what the ambitions of the club are, and those opinions tend to be shaped by what we see them doing.

It's difficult to look at the events of the last 2 or 3 years and really say we're being set up with any ambition. The board don't even talk to us about ambition any more, let alone actually do anything to suggest there is any.

There's also a tendency I notice of people shifting their opinions to avoid facing reality. The most recent thing I have seen is several people saying "well, I reckon that the thing they're waiting for is for us to have shifted the last of the bomb squad" - as if that's somehow the most obvious reason we're holding back, rather than just a handy excuse for the way things are at the moment.

It doesn't even stand the most rudimentary of examinations. Of the "Bomb Squad" (which incidentally is not only a situation the club created entirely itself, but is a situation lots of clubs have, in that it is basically players we don't want any more), Given has been on loan, Bent is at Fulham for the rest of the season, and Ireland is actually gone, leaving Hutton. That's not really the most convincing obstacles to ambition, surely?

Then there's that other one, whereby, having stabilised the wage bill, what we're going to do is actually start to build it up again, and embark on some serious spending. They've (the powers that be) spent the last three years talking about how important it is we are self sufficient, how the books have to be balanced. I think a lot of people are going to be disappointed when they find out that financial prudence isn't just a transitional thing.

Don't get me wrong, I entirely understand why people do that, and I totally understand that this is only my opinion, and there's every chance that I am wrong, but I honestly can't see anything, not one single credible piece of evidence at the moment, that suggests we have any ambition to return to the fringes of the top six. We might hope for it, yes, but that's not the same thing. I mean ambition in terms of actually acting in a way which suggests we are serious about making that happen.

I'd love to be convinced otherwise, though.

I really would. I just want to see something to make me feel that way.

I'm not even one of the miserablist fringe, either, I've supported and backed Randy through periods where he was getting huge amounts of stick, but it looks like there's just no feelgood factor, no ambition, no urge for improvement, nothing positive coming out of the club these days.

if you have a few people on here saying the above, you feel that it's just one of many arguing factions that we have on here around pretty much any topic, but it's not, it seems to me that the large majority of people on here feel pretty disillusioned at the moment, and they're not all miserable, shouty mentalists, are they?

This completely sums up what I feel, and I'm glad you posted it as I would not have done it that well thought out (lack of skill and laziness).

Although I'd love to know who the £8 million player was that Kendrick has referred to, and why it failed. Possibly hope Paulie, possibly.

[saunders_heroes]

This season I started to become really depressed that the plan included a "no glory" element which allowed the board and the owner to regard the simple survival in the Premiership as a legitimate and adequate ambition so long as the gates held up and the costs went down.

This is the key for me. It upsets me that "Premiership survival" is considered good. What's the point of turning up each year and aiming to be 10th.

So you've been told we'll be aiming for 10th next year and the year after?  Where did you get this information?

Obviously, nobody has told him that, but we all form our own opinions about what the ambitions of the club are, and those opinions tend to be shaped by what we see them doing.

It's difficult to look at the events of the last 2 or 3 years and really say we're being set up with any ambition. The board don't even talk to us about ambition any more, let alone actually do anything to suggest there is any.

After MON left the next two seasons were pretty much a write off since the club were literally all over the place.  When Mcleish was sacked, the club visibly changed its policy.  It is now trying something different.  Will it work?  I don't have a clue.  But the one thing I'm not doing is making assumptions.  I also note that most people agreed that mid table would be an acceptable target for this season.  Why then talk about finishing 10th every season?  If it looks like we're heading, or even aiming, for the same position next year then fair enough.

We're mid table, but let's not pretend we're not in a relegation battle. We're just 5 points above the drop zone so we're not comfortable. We've lost 7 home games in the league. This is not acceptable to fans so don't be surprised when they complain about it.

[Concrete John]

We're not in relegation battle.  However, the bottom half of the league is tight enough that we could get drawn into one, but we're not in one at the moment.

[saunders_heroes]

From 10th down everyone is involved in the relegation battle. If we could swap places with Southampton I'm sure we'd all be happier.
Obviously a win against West Ham would be most welcome.

[PaulWinch again]

I completely understand trying to get costs back in line, but this has taken place over a number of years now. Like paulie says, I imagine there are numerous other clubs with a few players on high wages who contribute little or nothing. I don't think that can excuse our lack of ambition over the last few years. I hope things will change moving forward, but there's nothing obvious to suggest that'll be the case.