To What End?

[Rudy Can't Fail]

Yesterday I would have agreed with you, Paul. Today, if the report in the Telegraph is true, I don't.

I have no problem with Lerner/Faulkner making mistakes, providing they learn from them. That doesn't appear to be the case.

[mattjpa]

The McLeish appointment was Lerner showing that, he had absolutely no idea what he was doing.

and saying

I could not give a flying shit what the fans of Aston Villa think.

This is not a good combination and we are still addled with him.

It was actually Lerner making the mistake of thinking that a guy who is, by all accounts, genuinely a really good bloke and who talks a good game could actually change his spots and had only been held back by the quality of players available to him.  As has been said before, he puts great value on personal relationships and he clearly thought that McLeish was someone he could work with for the best of the club.  From the outside it looks insane and quotes from Faulkner and GK around the time suggest that the club were aware that it looked that way but they thought it could work.

I just think people on here, and more so on other Villa forums, are too eager to look at any mistake made by Lerner or Faulkner and accuse them of not knowing what they're doing, as if being American or ginger means you can't learn anything about football.

.
Sorry Paul but that is a ridicuolous comment and does alot of people on here a dis-service. Not wanting these pair in charge of our club has nothing to do with nationality or hair colour. It is due to sustained mistakes, investment of huge sums of money resulting in us being worse off than before said investment. It is due to not understanding the fans and a consistent lack of openness and honesty smothered in sickly-sweet PR bullshit that means nothing. Football is escapism and the disapearance of a lack of ambition and hope kind of takes the meaning of it away.
Granted, alot of what has gone on is due to market change as well as mistakes but thats life im afraid. Thats why I thought this was the perfect time for him to sell up. But no, we get the disapointing news that not only are we going to be subjected to more relegation dog fights with the promise of mid table mediocricy as our ambition, we get told that we are going to be blessed with 30% possesion and fucking hoofball for the entire duration of it.

Lambert has got some things right and some things wrong. I get that and also understand the need for stability. But  we are playing shit at the moment, the fans arent enjoying it, we have just rolled over a got our bellies ticlkled by a team we should have aspirations of being better than and there is still the threat of relegation looming combined with not buying anyone in the latest transfer window.

Now is not the time to be offering Lambert a new deal and making it public. They never bloody learn.

[Jimbo]

Lerner has seen the table and thought, gee, I only asked him to keep us up. Hopefully I'll never experience the horror of appointing a new manager ever again (although I kinda enjoyed writing to Sir Alex).

[Ads]

I am sure Lerner's ambition for this season is to own a mid-table premier League club, which chimes with the ambition of the fans for this term, at least many on here with our predictions.

This should be considered an improvement on the past three season where he has owned and we have supported, a club threatened by relegation.

The home form is clearly a massive annoyance for all and the way certain players appear to have regressed on last seasons final third promise. That said, for as much as you have read on here in recent months that "we're only x amount of points from 18th" or "we won't be 11th much longer", here we sit, irionically higher than 11th and more than likely in the position that we will finish come May. Bang on target.

People get lost in the here and now and I think there is a real msconception that whatever happens now is all there is or there ever will be. That is a fallacy.

We can make a list of things that need to be done; two midfeilders, wide forward/winger with pace, right back, signing Betrand on a permanent deal; all those things would more than likely deliver the consistency we would need to lift us about mid-table mediocrity.

I think the bemoaning and catawauling is premature. Its not easy to sit back and think long term when you have sunk £545.00 to watch us at B6, but we are exactly where most us hoped we would be. The acid test will be whether we have upgraded the first team sufficently come September 2014. I understand some people's lack of faith that we will see the requisite investment, but lets actually wait and see what happens before we get all weepy about things.

[Malandro]

we'll be well below 10th spot come the end of the season, I'm sure of it

[Ads]

Ha ha ha!

[Dave Clark Five]

I note what Ads says but I don't want to be here in September saying 'wait and see what happens in January'.

[Mister E]

... Now is not the time to be offering Lambert a new deal and making it public. They never bloody learn.

I interpret this as the club seeking stability where the last four years have been in turmoil. Naive, maybe, to simply seek stability without an aspiration of progress or excellence.

From the club's perspective, Lambert has followed the plan of reducing the wage bill; he's bought prudently (in their terms); the team is inconsistent but eeking out results, enough; the attendances have not plummetted.

It's not pretty, or particularly aspirational or headline-grabbing; but it's doing the job they seem to currently want.

As I've said before, the challenge is: after the bomb squad is fully defused, what will the aspiration be then? - that's the killer-question for me.

[pauliewalnuts]

I think the bemoaning and catawauling is premature. Its not easy to sit back and think long term when you have sunk £545.00 to watch us at B6, but we are exactly where most us hoped we would be. The acid test will be whether we have upgraded the first team sufficently come September 2014. I understand some people's lack of faith that we will see the requisite investment, but lets actually wait and see what happens before we get all weepy about things.

Do you have to use emotional nonsense terms like "weepy" or "caterwauling"? It just takes away from any constructive points that they come with and it's more than a bit petty.

People are expressing their opinions. It's hardly weepy, for example, to be concerned at the truly terrible quality of football.

I'm sure most people are happyish with where we are - at the moment - but significantly less so with the lack of goals, inability to pass the ball and growing tendency to play route one football that we seem to be becoming known for.

[Ads]

It is coming across as all weepy though. People are saying they are resigned to it all. We're seeing lots of little yellow sad faces following posts and people getting more and more misty eyed about the past. With each loss some get more emboldened with their Ellis revisionism.

I see it as being resigned to the perception that we will be frozen in the form, position etc of the last defeat for now and all eternity. I see posts putting a lot of emotion into the analysis, I have taken it out. I am not being petty and I am not being dismissive of criticism out of hand, in fact, if you re-read your post, ignoring the first paragraph, you agree with me or at the least, share the same concerns.

[paul_e]

The McLeish appointment was Lerner showing that, he had absolutely no idea what he was doing.

and saying

I could not give a flying shit what the fans of Aston Villa think.

This is not a good combination and we are still addled with him.

It was actually Lerner making the mistake of thinking that a guy who is, by all accounts, genuinely a really good bloke and who talks a good game could actually change his spots and had only been held back by the quality of players available to him.  As has been said before, he puts great value on personal relationships and he clearly thought that McLeish was someone he could work with for the best of the club.  From the outside it looks insane and quotes from Faulkner and GK around the time suggest that the club were aware that it looked that way but they thought it could work.

I just think people on here, and more so on other Villa forums, are too eager to look at any mistake made by Lerner or Faulkner and accuse them of not knowing what they're doing, as if being American or ginger means you can't learn anything about football.

.
Sorry Paul but that is a ridicuolous comment and does alot of people on here a dis-service. Not wanting these pair in charge of our club has nothing to do with nationality or hair colour. It is due to sustained mistakes, investment of huge sums of money resulting in us being worse off than before said investment. It is due to not understanding the fans and a consistent lack of openness and honesty smothered in sickly-sweet PR bullshit that means nothing. Football is escapism and the disapearance of a lack of ambition and hope kind of takes the meaning of it away.
Granted, alot of what has gone on is due to market change as well as mistakes but thats life im afraid. Thats why I thought this was the perfect time for him to sell up. But no, we get the disapointing news that not only are we going to be subjected to more relegation dog fights with the promise of mid table mediocricy as our ambition, we get told that we are going to be blessed with 30% possesion and fucking hoofball for the entire duration of it.

Lambert has got some things right and some things wrong. I get that and also understand the need for stability. But  we are playing shit at the moment, the fans arent enjoying it, we have just rolled over a got our bellies ticlkled by a team we should have aspirations of being better than and there is still the threat of relegation looming combined with not buying anyone in the latest transfer window.

Now is not the time to be offering Lambert a new deal and making it public. They never bloody learn.

no it doesn't.  When Ellis made truly horrible appointments they were mistakes, Lerner makes horrible appointments and it's because "he doesn't know the game", I'm convinced that if he was from a nation which is more synonymous with football you'd never hear that comment.  The ginger comment was intentionally stupid because, as I've said before, I don't really understand why there's so much hate towards Faulkner, so I made light of it.  I just think there's a certain snobbishness towards Americans where football is concerned and, because we're not top 6, that is being targeted towards Lerner.

[pauliewalnuts]

It is coming across as all weepy though. People are saying they are resigned to it all. We're seeing lots of little yellow sad faces following posts and people getting more and more misty eyed about the past. With each loss some get more emboldened with their Ellis revisionism.

I see it as being resigned to the perception that we will be frozen in the form, position etc of the last defeat for now and all eternity. I see posts putting a lot of emotion into the analysis, I have taken it out. I am not being petty and I am not being dismissive of criticism out of hand, in fact, if you re-read your post, ignoring the first paragraph, you agree with me or at the least, share the same concerns.

It's not just weepy, we've also had references in the past to people wetting the bed / pissing themselves / whatever, it's just tiresome and not really needed.

I know I agree with much of what you say, I'm not disputing that, that's not the point, though, it's the way you say it - there's just no need for some of it. It doesn't add to the debate, and you're perfectly capable of expressing your point without it.

[dave.woodhall]

One of the things that annoys me is the idea that they're not approachable (when in fact I don't know of a similar-sized club whose senior employees are more openly available) and what's summed up by the phrase "PR bullshit." Of course they put a positive spin on everything they say - every business does. As paul_e said above, when they get something wrong "they don't know football." When they do something that's not universally popular, "they don't listen to the fans."

[pauliewalnuts]

I think the McLeish appointment wasn't so much a sign that they don't know football, more a sign they're from a different planet.

[Monty]

Agreed. I think they do get far too much flak for what is obviously almost a superabundance of goodwill, but my God they don't half make some daft decisions relating to the stuff on the pitch.