To What End?

[eastie]

The question for me really is whether randy is happy owning a premier club in mid table or whether he still has the ambition to put us back challenging at the top end of the table and if so does he have the finance to get us there .

If not then I'd prefer him to look for a buyer who can progress the club as we are too big a club to be languishing in this position for several years, also  we will find our better players moving on to more ambititious clubs if we cannot compete at the highest level .

[class_of_82]

 perry_barr_pet
trialist

Posts: 111
Location: rotterdam and always will be
   

Re: To What End?
« Reply #69 on: February 02, 2014, 06:26:36 PM »
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Pauliewalnuts

Thanks for that info just so much quicker and easier on a ipad

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  olaftab
player manager


Posts: 12423
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Re: To What End?
« Reply #70 on: February 02, 2014, 08:28:09 PM »
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Quote from: perry_barr_pet on February 02, 2014, 06:04:40 PM
Olaftab

Ha ha I thought so to doing this on a iPad. I touch screen someone's quote goes blue and I copy then paste in my reply.

Go on then what's the right way give me a quick lesson
On iPad you can go on full site version. The button is usually on the bottom for that and then you will see the "quote" button on top right hand side of every message. Click on that. On normal iPad message number based version there is a dropdown menu, 4 bars in a circle in every message, you can tap on that and then tap on quote.
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  Stu
coach


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Re: To What End?
« Reply #71 on: February 02, 2014, 09:12:46 PM »
Quote
Quote from: perry_barr_pet on February 02, 2014, 03:21:55 PM
Jesus Christ no one especially not me is saying anything about the support our support in my view is up there with the best of them and considering our position it must be the best. I come out of villa park not able to speak sometimes but what I'm saying no matter how bad we playing the slagging off don't help. For one game just one game "sing your hearts out for the lads" and as for saying the cost was different back in the 3rd division that means that if you watch crap every week for 90 minutes and only pay a pittance to watch it it's ok.

We get better attendances in the modern era than we ever have done. The support is there, but the team rarely show anything at home. I don't think the level of support, or the support that the fans show, is an issue.

37,000 v Halifax 48,000 v Bournemouth both in old 3rd div and I'm sure mr woodhall or another mod can quote a few more attendances from that year.

Yet again I'm saying our support is immense always has been butt if we get 35,000 for a home game and and 20% of them boo or slag off the team it don't help does it.

 Sorry olaftab iPad so much easier

[ez]

I still think Randy agreed to give mon 1 final attempt to go all out at it in the summer when we got Dunne, etc. I think the Barry departure had made him realise that we had to make it that year or the likes of Young and Milner would be looking to move and we'd be back to square one.  I think he knew exactly what the situation was in terms of finances (GK told us repeatedly to not worry about the wage bill) but I think they saw it as an acceptable risk.  I also think that mon was made well aware of that, which is why his behaviour towards the end of his last season seemed to odd.  Lots of people put it down to him wanting the liverpool job, which may well be the case, but i think it was that he realised he missed out on his best chance of making the champions league with us.

I think Randy pulled the plug on the project and Martin wasn't happy with it. That is my understanding.

Probably right mal.

I don't know. I tend to think the Houllier season was the last tilt at it. I'm sure one of the reasons given for his appointment was champions league experience.

[oldhill_avfc]

For me it's blindingly obvious he's setting us up for a sale and quite frankly I hope he is. We are just hanging in there, whilst he continually reduces the debt and hoping we don't get relegated in the meantime. Going nowhere.

It's not as if he's going to regain his passion for us or suddenly find an extra 100 million to throw at it.

Thanks for the initial optimism Randy but now that's gone the best thing you can do for us is sell us to a rich 'custodian' so we can move forward. Preferably one that won't lose interest after the first setback.

I agree with the sentiment but would argue with the notion of a rich custodian or getting someone to 'throw 100m' at the club.

The chairman/owners of Spurs, Everton or Arsenal don't subsidise their clubs.  They have excellent management teams and we need the same.

[Mister E]

Y

Well if that's the case and it sounds like we effectively had no CEO for two years then Randy has no one to blame but himself for MON going crazy with the cheque book.  It's probably credit to Faulkner that within three months of joining MON had realised his game was up and pissed off.

If you look at it from Randy's point of view, though, it kind of made sense when he came here.

He starts to buy the club, hears that everyone wants O'Neill as manager. Speaks to him, and - have no doubt - MON will have told him he'd run all the football side of things for him.

It would have been perfect at the time - Randy, not knowing anything about owning a football club, presented with an accomplished, highly popular, proven applicant for the job. I don't blame him for it at all, at least not at the outset.

Let's be honest, none of us were really complaining at the time, either. Yes, we spent an awful lot of money, but we assumed the club was being run in a prudent way - enough people asked Gen Krulak about it on here, even specifically about the wage bill, and they told us "don't worry, we know what we're doing with the money".

If anything, I think it was naivety. Naivety to let the wages situation get to that point, and naivety to let the manager see off CEOs so easily and quickly.

I imagine when MON flounced, it was an enormous shock and the beginning of having to learn lots of things, very quickly. Nobody could have predicted he'd go so abruptly, but I do think their problem was that they had so much of the task of running the club invested in one single person.

If you look at it from Randy's point of view, though, it kind of made sense when he came here.

He starts to buy the club, hears that everyone wants O'Neill as manager. Speaks to him, and - have no doubt - MON will have told him he'd run all the football side of things for him.

It would have been perfect at the time - Randy, not knowing anything about owning a football club, presented with an accomplished, highly popular, proven applicant for the job. I don't blame him for it at all, at least not at the outset.

Let's be honest, none of us were really complaining at the time, either. Yes, we spent an awful lot of money, but we assumed the club was being run in a prudent way - enough people asked Gen Krulak about it on here, even specifically about the wage bill, and they told us "don't worry, we know what we're doing with the money".

If anything, I think it was naivety. Naivety to let the wages situation get to that point, and naivety to let the manager see off CEOs so easily and quickly.

I imagine when MON flounced, it was an enormous shock and the beginning of having to learn lots of things, very quickly. Nobody could have predicted he'd go so abruptly, but I do think their problem was that they had so much of the task of running the club invested in one single person.

Yes, entirely my understanding and opinion, Paulie.

[paul_e]

I imagine when MON flounced, it was an enormous shock and the beginning of having to learn lots of things, very quickly. Nobody could have predicted he'd go so abruptly, but I do think their problem was that they had so much of the task of running the club invested in one single person.

Yes, entirely my understanding and opinion, Paulie.

It wasn't just that it was invested in one person, it's that everyone who had anything to do with the 1st team was one of his own men so they all went with him.  Normally if a manager leaves with little notice you'd have his assistant or head coach to provide a bit of continuity, we had to promote a few guys from the reserves with 5 days to put together a plan to play a premier league match.  Thankfully we were playing a truly shit West Ham side who made it very easy for us, and our best player who was on his way out of the club put on a bit of a masterclass.  Our disarray got shown up for what it really was the next week though.

[Dave Clark Five]

I don't think we would have wanted any help from Walford or Robertson. They were the laughing stock of the club.

[Rudy Can't Fail]

Thankfully we were playing a truly shit West Ham side who made it very easy for us, and our best player who was on his way out of the club put on a bit of a masterclass.  Our disarray got shown up for what it really was the next week though.

True but for 90 glorious minutes we were a joy to watch, something nobody could have claimed under MON for quite some time - probably going back to April 2008 when we beat the Rags 5-1 but you're right, the following week was the wake up call from hell.

[brian green]

I love to think about pivotal moments.   It is a form of painless thinking about Villa for me.   We went to to Newcastle with KMac as caretaker manager.   We got a penalty early on which Carew basted into the Gallowgate End.   If we had scored a goal and got up a bit of momentum I am not saying we would have won but we would not have got the mullering we went on to get.

That result did for KMac, a coach respected and admired and trusted by the players and he was never considered for even an extension of his temporary stewardship.   In my humble opinion if KMac had been able to steady the ship and a better trawl made for a permanent manager, or even KMac himself proving his worth, the last four years would have been very different.   For four long years we have been running the club in crisis management mode.   I include the on going obsession with thrift to be part of that crisis management ethos.

[Irish villain]

Good post Brian, it's like a 'bunker mentality almost.

For me two pivotal moments in our recent history were the 7-1 hammering away to Chelsea in MON's last season. I've written before that we were quite poor in the league after that day and were quite lucky to beat Hull and Small Heath afterwards thanks to a couple of penalties.

Really, MON should have walked after the Blackburn game on the last day of the season.He didn't, and we know what happened next.

Another big moment, but not pivotal, was going out of the Europa League to Rapid the second time. Had we got into Europe again I think there would have been a much happier vibe around the club by the time Houllier arrived. Everything was just so demoralised that year and he didn't exactly help.

The next pivotal moment was so publicly chasing Martinez and him rejecting us. That was such a kick in the nuts for this club and I don't think we discuss it enough. That was a very humiliating week with that Dave Whelan wading in. McLeish arriving just added insult to injury and the crisis just started to grow and grow when Downing and Young left.

[ROBBO]

The McLeish appointment was probably the most baffling turn of events i have ever witnessed andi am probably one of if not the oldest poster on here. I still cannot get my head around what Lerner was thinking, the only excuse i can find is that not being born and bred in Birmingham he didn't realise the hostility the appointment would bring. Krulak Disappearing overnight was the first indication that Lerner had given up the McLeish appointment just underpinned that view.

[paul_e]

The McLeish appointment was probably the most baffling turn of events i have ever witnessed andi am probably one of if not the oldest poster on here. I still cannot get my head around what Lerner was thinking, the only excuse i can find is that not being born and bred in Birmingham he didn't realise the hostility the appointment would bring. Krulak Disappearing overnight was the first indication that Lerner had given up the McLeish appointment just underpinned that view.

GK left after the AM appointment didn't he?  I remember the "imagine what he'll do with money" comments, and I've always wondered just how much he regrets saying that.

[Monty]

The McLeish appointment was probably the most baffling turn of events i have ever witnessed andi am probably one of if not the oldest poster on here. I still cannot get my head around what Lerner was thinking, the only excuse i can find is that not being born and bred in Birmingham he didn't realise the hostility the appointment would bring. Krulak Disappearing overnight was the first indication that Lerner had given up the McLeish appointment just underpinned that view.

Forget hostility, McLeish is just a terrible football manager.

[ChicagoLion]

The McLeish appointment was Lerner showing that, he had absolutely no idea what he was doing.

and saying

I could not give a flying shit what the fans of Aston Villa think.

This is not a good combination and we are still addled with him.

[paul_e]

The McLeish appointment was Lerner showing that, he had absolutely no idea what he was doing.

and saying

I could not give a flying shit what the fans of Aston Villa think.

This is not a good combination and we are still addled with him.

It was actually Lerner making the mistake of thinking that a guy who is, by all accounts, genuinely a really good bloke and who talks a good game could actually change his spots and had only been held back by the quality of players available to him.  As has been said before, he puts great value on personal relationships and he clearly thought that McLeish was someone he could work with for the best of the club.  From the outside it looks insane and quotes from Faulkner and GK around the time suggest that the club were aware that it looked that way but they thought it could work.

I just think people on here, and more so on other Villa forums, are too eager to look at any mistake made by Lerner or Faulkner and accuse them of not knowing what they're doing, as if being American or ginger means you can't learn anything about football.