Mistakes and missed opportunities

[paul_e]

I agree, as a club we completely failed to respond to the change to the sector.  The Premier league became the biggest show in town and we just plodded along exactly as we had been.

[AV82EC]

A lot of the mistakes cited are just the way decisions were made; nobody knows how events would have turned out regardless of what happened and in the words of John Gregory, Hindsight United have never lost a match.

However, and this is something I could write a university thesis about because I said it then, I've said it ever since and when two or more who were present at the time get together they always say it. From Italia '90 until 2002, and in particular between the 1996 League Cup final and the 2000 FA Cup final, no club had the planets align to give them the opportunity to join the elite as often as Villa did. During the biggest boom period English football has ever known, a time when for the first time ever, the monied and literary classes were interested in football, we were the only show in town for a massive chunk of the country. From Manchester to London and from Ireland to the North Sea, there was no other club worth talking about and a whole generation of West Midlands children grew up only knowing the Villa locally in the Premier League. And all we were bothered about was being the biggest club in Birmingham. In 1994 we had the Republic's World Cup captain and their most popular player of all time - you couldn't buy a Villa shirt in Dublin. We had three Muslims in the first team when clubs were desperate to tap in to the UK Asian market - we did nothing to promote the fact. The south-west, then as now, is where Brummies emigrated. You'd struggle to buy a Villa shirt in Worcester, thirty miles away. One club had a visible presence in Birmingham city centre - Manchester Fucking United.

Other clubs were beginning to see the importance of proper media relations and marketing. When asked why we still didn't have a press officer, the master businessman said that we'd tried it before and the media always wanted to speak directly to him. That was thirty years earlier. We didn't have a database of supporters; season ticket holders would get a renewal form and that was it. No reminders, no follow-ups or attempts to get lapsed holders back. I worked harder on renewing H&V subscribers than the club did for season tickets. I could fill a book with the jaw-dropping idiocy they were coming up with at this time, but to give one example they were obsessed with unofficial merchandise - the biggest sales of Villa licensed gear outside Birmingham came from a shop at Merry Hill. The owner unwittingly stocked some counterfeit stuff once. Instead of having a quiet word Villa went in all guns blazing and took him to court, then wonder why he stopped selling their merchandise. Every other club of any size was becoming a supermarket, Villa were a corner shop. We were, as Hyder Jaward said in the Post, the first club to enter the twentieth century and the last big club to leave it.

As a result of this mentality, when Small Heath got promoted in 2002 they were making the headlines, they were seen as the progressive club of the city. We had a ten year start on them, they caught us up within weeks and thank God their inate Birmingham Cityness prevailed because otherwise we would have really been in trouble.

That was the time we could have joined the elite without splashing out; now a billionaire couldn't buy our place there.

Oh if I could have written that post. Spot on Dave.  I boycotted Villa Park from 1998 to 2004 because of the old fool as I just couldn't stand to see my ticket money be so recklessly wasted by this parochial so called master businessman and his negligent running of the club at the time. 

I've just about forgiven him, but forget it, never.

[Dave]

A minor one:

In 2007 we spent £5.5m on a season long loan for Scott Carson and Zat Knight to have a back five of Carson, Mellberg, Laursen, Knight and Bouma, while Luke Young went to Boro for £2m.

The following season we spent £12m on Nicky Shorey, Luke Young and Brad Friedel to have a back five of Friedel, Young, Laursen, Knight, Shorey.

What if we'd just spent the money properly in 2007 to have a defence of Friedel, Young, Mellberg, Laursen, Bouma for that season (the first time we finished sixth under O'Neill)?

I don't think there would have been many better defences in the league. Rather than the usual "what if we'd bought Bent instead of Heskey" discussions, the above I think was the real missed opportunity.

[KevinGage]

Aside from various missed opportunities to become one of the genuine heavy hitters, it's a spectacular effort to spend as much as we have since 2006 and now have a worse squad than Southampton, Norwich, Stoke et al.

Two of those clubs were in the third tier until quite recently, yet despite years of Premier League stability for us (at worst), they can eclipse us in no time.  Lamentable management and decision making at the very top can be levelled at other characters apart from Ellis.

[Rudy Can't Fail]

Justin Edinburgh clearing off the line - was it over? - and the 6 minutes of injury time at Hillsborough.
Was that even on the same day?  That's how I remember it.

Edinburghs was a mid week game, Fergie time the 1st was at Old Trafford.

Agreed though, two huge moments.

I should be a historian with accuracy like that.

It was 8 minutes added time at Old Trafford.

[LTA]

A lot of the mistakes cited are just the way decisions were made; nobody knows how events would have turned out regardless of what happened and in the words of John Gregory, Hindsight United have never lost a match.

However, and this is something I could write a university thesis about because I said it then, I've said it ever since and when two or more who were present at the time get together they always say it. From Italia '90 until 2002, and in particular between the 1996 League Cup final and the 2000 FA Cup final, no club had the planets align to give them the opportunity to join the elite as often as Villa did. During the biggest boom period English football has ever known, a time when for the first time ever, the monied and literary classes were interested in football, we were the only show in town for a massive chunk of the country. From Manchester to London and from Ireland to the North Sea, there was no other club worth talking about and a whole generation of West Midlands children grew up only knowing the Villa locally in the Premier League. And all we were bothered about was being the biggest club in Birmingham. In 1994 we had the Republic's World Cup captain and their most popular player of all time - you couldn't buy a Villa shirt in Dublin. We had three Muslims in the first team when clubs were desperate to tap in to the UK Asian market - we did nothing to promote the fact. The south-west, then as now, is where Brummies emigrated. You'd struggle to buy a Villa shirt in Worcester, thirty miles away. One club had a visible presence in Birmingham city centre - Manchester Fucking United.

Other clubs were beginning to see the importance of proper media relations and marketing. When asked why we still didn't have a press officer, the master businessman said that we'd tried it before and the media always wanted to speak directly to him. That was thirty years earlier. We didn't have a database of supporters; season ticket holders would get a renewal form and that was it. No reminders, no follow-ups or attempts to get lapsed holders back. I worked harder on renewing H&V subscribers than the club did for season tickets. I could fill a book with the jaw-dropping idiocy they were coming up with at this time, but to give one example they were obsessed with unofficial merchandise - the biggest sales of Villa licensed gear outside Birmingham came from a shop at Merry Hill. The owner unwittingly stocked some counterfeit stuff once. Instead of having a quiet word Villa went in all guns blazing and took him to court, then wonder why he stopped selling their merchandise. Every other club of any size was becoming a supermarket, Villa were a corner shop. We were, as Hyder Jaward said in the Post, the first club to enter the twentieth century and the last big club to leave it.

As a result of this mentality, when Small Heath got promoted in 2002 they were making the headlines, they were seen as the progressive club of the city. We had a ten year start on them, they caught us up within weeks and thank God their inate Birmingham Cityness prevailed because otherwise we would have really been in trouble.

That was the time we could have joined the elite without splashing out; now a billionaire couldn't buy our place there.

Oh if I could have written that post. Spot on Dave.  I boycotted Villa Park from 1998 to 2004 because of the old fool as I just couldn't stand to see my ticket money be so recklessly wasted by this parochial so called master businessman and his negligent running of the club at the time. 

I've just about forgiven him, but forget it, never.

Agreed.  We had chance after chance to really establish ourselves as giant club, but Ellis' arrogance and poor vision always got in the way, yet we were always being told by the likes of Gary Newbon that we were lucky under Ellis as our foundation was secure - which it was, but that was just it.  We could never build on them.  Yes it was great that Lerner came in and invested masses of money into the infrastructure and, initially the playing staff, but it came about fifteen years too late.

In fact, I seem to recall Newbon claiming he advised the board to rename the new Witton Lane Stand in Ellis' honour.

[ChicagoLion]

Great Post by Mr Woodhall.

Villa is still one of a few Clubs that could join the elite, but every season that passes takes that dream further and further away.

It is just as likely of course that we could the other way and start making up the numbers in the lower leagues.

This regimes mistakes are plain to see hurried investment then hurried disinvestment and shockingly poor managerial appointments. Great discussion.

[dave.woodhall]

A lot of the mistakes cited are just the way decisions were made; nobody knows how events would have turned out regardless of what happened and in the words of John Gregory, Hindsight United have never lost a match.

However, and this is something I could write a university thesis about because I said it then, I've said it ever since and when two or more who were present at the time get together they always say it. From Italia '90 until 2002, and in particular between the 1996 League Cup final and the 2000 FA Cup final, no club had the planets align to give them the opportunity to join the elite as often as Villa did. During the biggest boom period English football has ever known, a time when for the first time ever, the monied and literary classes were interested in football, we were the only show in town for a massive chunk of the country. From Manchester to London and from Ireland to the North Sea, there was no other club worth talking about and a whole generation of West Midlands children grew up only knowing the Villa locally in the Premier League. And all we were bothered about was being the biggest club in Birmingham. In 1994 we had the Republic's World Cup captain and their most popular player of all time - you couldn't buy a Villa shirt in Dublin. We had three Muslims in the first team when clubs were desperate to tap in to the UK Asian market - we did nothing to promote the fact. The south-west, then as now, is where Brummies emigrated. You'd struggle to buy a Villa shirt in Worcester, thirty miles away. One club had a visible presence in Birmingham city centre - Manchester Fucking United.

Other clubs were beginning to see the importance of proper media relations and marketing. When asked why we still didn't have a press officer, the master businessman said that we'd tried it before and the media always wanted to speak directly to him. That was thirty years earlier. We didn't have a database of supporters; season ticket holders would get a renewal form and that was it. No reminders, no follow-ups or attempts to get lapsed holders back. I worked harder on renewing H&V subscribers than the club did for season tickets. I could fill a book with the jaw-dropping idiocy they were coming up with at this time, but to give one example they were obsessed with unofficial merchandise - the biggest sales of Villa licensed gear outside Birmingham came from a shop at Merry Hill. The owner unwittingly stocked some counterfeit stuff once. Instead of having a quiet word Villa went in all guns blazing and took him to court, then wonder why he stopped selling their merchandise. Every other club of any size was becoming a supermarket, Villa were a corner shop. We were, as Hyder Jaward said in the Post, the first club to enter the twentieth century and the last big club to leave it.

As a result of this mentality, when Small Heath got promoted in 2002 they were making the headlines, they were seen as the progressive club of the city. We had a ten year start on them, they caught us up within weeks and thank God their inate Birmingham Cityness prevailed because otherwise we would have really been in trouble.

That was the time we could have joined the elite without splashing out; now a billionaire couldn't buy our place there.

Oh if I could have written that post. Spot on Dave.  I boycotted Villa Park from 1998 to 2004 because of the old fool as I just couldn't stand to see my ticket money be so recklessly wasted by this parochial so called master businessman and his negligent running of the club at the time. 

I've just about forgiven him, but forget it, never.

Agreed.  We had chance after chance to really establish ourselves as giant club, but Ellis' arrogance and poor vision always got in the way, yet we were always being told by the likes of Gary Newbon that we were lucky under Ellis as our foundation was secure - which it was, but that was just it.  We could never build on them.  Yes it was great that Lerner came in and invested masses of money into the infrastructure and, initially the playing staff, but it came about fifteen years too late.

In fact, I seem to recall Newbon claiming he advised the board to rename the new Witton Lane Stand in Ellis' honour.

One thing Ellis always did was make sure he had the media onside. On his side, that is; by Doug Ellis, for the benefit of Doug Ellis. Randy & co have made some horrendous mistakes but I honestly believe that they want what's best for the Villa. Doug wanted what was best for him.

[Toronto Villa]

Sir Graham leaving is the biggest one for me. We had a very solid squad that under his leadership would only get better. The club was settled and played some exciting stuff. That event was not only bad for us, especially given that the PL was about to start, but ended up badly for him too. If I could ever have a football moment in time back to have something done differently it would be that one.

[go on the dog]

I heard a tale once, When we were neck and neck going for the title Big Ron wanted to fetch a new striker in, The bloke he wanted was John Aldridge but Doug Ellis wouldn't pay £250,000 for a 30 odd year old striker!!! John Aldridge would have been ideal cover for Dean Saunders and Dalian Atkinson and as we all know the goals dried up end of that season.

[KevinGage]

See, that's where these kind of discussions can run aground. 

That side in 1989/90 probably performed above itself.  There were some great players in it in the form of God, Sid and Platt.  But there was a fair amount of dross too. 

If Taylor had stayed on in 1990, he'd have probably still been in charge by the summer of 1991 too.  And we'd have missed out on BFR.  Ron's side played some of the best football most of us are ever likely to see at VP.  I wouldn't swap those years for anything.

[ChicagoLion]

See, that's where these kind of discussions can run aground. 

That side in 1989/90 probably performed above itself.  There were some great players in it in the form of God, Sid and Platt.  But there was a fair amount of dross too. 

If Taylor had stayed on in 1990, he'd have probably still been in charge by the summer of 1991 too.  And we'd have missed out on BFR.  Ron's side played some of the best football most of us are ever likely to see at VP.  I wouldn't swap those years for anything.

I thought the football was pretty ordinary from that Taylor team, lots of defending and long ball stuff, it was very effective considering the resources he had. I agree that team achieved more than should have been expected.

[eric woolban woolban]

Playing 'that' side in the UEFA cup to preserve our chance of Champions League football was the beginning of the end for O'Neill.

I'm sure the next match was against Stoke and two up we threw away the lead in the last few minutes.

Including that game and the next seven, we amassed four point (4 draws, 4 defeats)

Had we of won, we'd have been eight points ahead of Arsenal with 11 games to go.

Ended up ten points behind and in sixth place.

[Rudy65]

Ellis was the problem. End of.

Dave W summed it up perfectly.

Ellis ran the club like a corner shop and his own business.

Mind you the likes of Martin Edwards, Ken Bates etc were exactly the same. Had business success outside football but hopeless in it. In those days clubs just didnt want big debts, and when they did, it created mega problems. Think chelsea both before and during the Bates reign

Seem to recall Fergie saying Edwards was a stingy, short sighted owner. Fergie got lucky with the Utd kids which gave him more power and ultimately allowed him to control the club. We never had the continuity of manager because Ellis just kept sacking them!

Every manager we seemed to have just ran out of steam or patience with Ellis. Ie BFR, Little. As other have said GT managing England was a big turning point because I think he had the respect of Ellis like no other manager did. If he had stayed and built on the second place finish in 1990 it could have been so different.

Todays regime is just like death by a thousand cuts. Very painful

[Rudy Can't Fail]

Big Ron's greatest mistake was to persist with Saunders and Atkinson whilst ignoring Yorke.

The appointment of Stuart Gray, replacing Steve Harrison as Coach by John Gregory was a mistake as we were never the same team again.

Graham Taylor's biggest mistake was on his return to think he had time to evaluate the squad. Taking over in early February, he let the season fizzle out, only winning 3 games and it continued into the following season. Losing, like winning becomes a habit.

'Missed Opportunity' should be our club motto, such is the frequency we fail to take advantage of our position. It really is frustrating but has become the norm over the last 30 odd years.