Aston Villa v Swansea City Post-Match Thread

[damon loves JT]

Also, on the subject of possession statistics: we had the majority of the ball against palace and didn't look any better.

[Steve kirk]

I fully expected a routine Swansea win so a point is a nice surprise no matter how we played, Gabby scoring may hopefully see him score a few more, better performance from Delph, we have stoppred the rot, in this horror run our goal difference hasn't been damaged to badly, just trying to be positive in these worrying times.

[E I Adio]

Not for the first time the team played reasonable football for the first 10 minutes or so, then completely forgot what they were supposed to be doing. I've never quite seen anything like it and I was around in the 1969-70 season. The difference is that today we do have some players who are at least capable of good football. The mystery is why they don't perform, it just seems that their confidence is completely shot.

In 1969/70 we had Bruce Rioch,Chico Hamilton,and Pat MacMahon. I think they were capable of very very good football.

This lot are uniformly abysmal.

That's true, all on their day good players, but that season they were rarely "on their day." We also had the likes of Lionel Martin, Barry Hole, Jimmy Brown and Dave Simmons trying their best to keep us from dropping into the 3rd division.

[MarkM]

Also, on the subject of possession statistics: we had the majority of the ball against palace and didn't look any better.

So we're are pretty poor with or without the ball.

Is that progress?

[damon loves JT]

Also, on the subject of possession statistics: we had the majority of the ball against palace and didn't look any better.

So we're are pretty poor with or without the ball.

Is that progress?

I don't know. I thought it was worth pointing out. Maybe you disagree.

[silhillvilla]

4 of us were going to do the 1874 lounge for the Sheffield Utd game as it's only £87.50 each. However we made a unanimous decision now that Lerner lambert Culverhouse the players , really not worth it. Will go for the £10 north lower. Would boycott but can't turn my back on the club.

[brian green]

I think if I was dying and only had £350 to spend before I shuffled off I cannot think of anything I would want more to spend my money on than to see a Villa game, however shit.

I think I would prefer never to have lived than have said of me "what did your dad/brother/grandad spend his last £350 on? - Oh he bought a new DFS sofa - a blue and white one."

[Eigentor]

I don't think we were extremely shit. We had spells at the start of each half where we got in Swansea's faces and refused to let them play. It's not unfair to give the players credit for that.

They showed a bit of courage and a bit of fight today. Sadly the quality is not there, for whatever reason.

I agree with this. Considering the quality of our last four performances, today's wasn't too bad. We seemed to have a desire to fight our way out of our current misery, and that's good. We can moan about the lack of quality, but we're in a catch 22 of poor performances and low confidence, and there is no easy way out of that. But today we at least saw evidence that the players are trying.

[Dribbler]

Also, on the subject of possession statistics: we had the majority of the ball against palace and didn't look any better.

So we're are pretty poor with or without the ball.

Is that progress?

I don't know. I thought it was worth pointing out. Maybe you disagree.

So as several other people have pointed out, having the greatest amount of possession doesn't necessarily mean that you will a) win the game, or b) actually even play that well with the possession and create many meaningful chances. All that tells us, is that statistics taken in isolation aren't very useful. I'm sure most people know the old quote "There's lies, damn lies, and then there's statistics". For instance a stat rolled out about Villa the other week was that we had one of the best records in the league of going on and winning a game when in a winning position. Seems like a great stat until you realise we have very rarely led games in the first place. We might have only ever led one game, the first game of the season, where we scored in the 94th minute and only led for a minute, but the stat on its own won't tell you that.

So no, the possession stat on it's own doesn't necessarily mean much, but hey, try putting it in the context of a whole raft of other stats to see the bigger picture, like: games won, games won at home, goals scored at home, long ball passing stats, pass completion rates, number of chances etc etc., the picture that builds up is a pretty accurate and damning one.

[supertom]

If you play 10 matches and have an average of 30% possession for example I would imagine that you'd lose most of them. Possession isn't everything but the more ball you have, the less the opposition have, and they can't hurt you without the ball.

At home, to have 30% possession isn't good enough at all.

We might have had slightly the better against Palace but we did fuck all with it.

[RossLeach]

I can't believe no one is impressed with the way we out-thought Swansea today. If I were Laudrup, one thing I wouldn't have expected us to do with our two forwards who are least good in the air was to get Guzan to lump the ball 60yards up the pitch constantly for the 85minutes after we scored....

[eastie]

If you play 10 matches and have an average of 30% possession for example I would imagine that you'd lose most of them. Possession isn't everything but the more ball you have, the less the opposition have, and they can't hurt you without the ball.

At home, to have 30% possession isn't good enough at all.

We might have had slightly the better against Palace but we did fuck all with it.

Also as the season wears on which set of players will be fitter -

The ones chasing a ball 65% of games or the ones passing it to each other .

[FrankyH]

To many players just don't want the ball when we have possession.
Clarke still persists in hoofing the ball ( I used to think Clarke would one day be good enough to play in midfield).
KEA and Tonev have the luxury of being Lamberts buys, so get chance after chance dispite poor displays.
I know its easy to say chuck in some of the kids/fringe players , but Gardner has got to be a better option in midfield than Westwood and KEA.

[BC54 VFC]

Not for the first time the team played reasonable football for the first 10 minutes or so, then completely forgot what they were supposed to be doing. I've never quite seen anything like it and I was around in the 1969-70 season. The difference is that today we do have some players who are at least capable of good football. The mystery is why they don't perform, it just seems that their confidence is completely shot.

In 1969/70 we had Bruce Rioch,Chico Hamilton,and Pat MacMahon. I think they were capable of very very good football.

This lot are uniformly abysmal.

That's true, all on their day good players, but that season they were rarely "on their day." We also had the likes of Lionel Martin, Barry Hole, Jimmy Brown and Dave Simmons trying their best to keep us from dropping into the 3rd division.

Barrie Hole if you don't mind, and he was a Welsh international. Better than anything we've got in our midfield right now. 

[Villa in Denmark]

Re the debate on possession stats.

I would generally agree that too much can be read into them. I would argue that as long as the balance lies within 45% / 55% then it implies a reasonable balance and the possession in the final 3rd, or possession leading to chances is more interesting.

However as you get towards a 40% / 60% split it's starting to imply one team genuinely dominating, but again the possession by position on the pitch is still a valuable qualification, as was mentioned after Southampton if all the possession is in their half it's not really a problem, especially if it's a definite tactic to counter someone like Arsenal.

When you start getting down to 30% it's starting to sound like you can't string 3 passes together.

For me it's not that we're constantly under 50%, it's that we struggle to get over 35%.