Fulham v Aston Villa Post-Match Thread

[Toronto Villa]

we're a mid table team doing what mid table teams do. Lose some, win some. We'll win some we shouldn't, we'll also lose some we shouldn't. We'll have very little consistency as will all of those sides around us. Yesterday we lost one that on form we shouldn't but against a side that has the quality in their squad to be exactly where we are this season. Fulham had massively underperformed under Jol. I expect that in January we'll have more points and be sitting close to where we are now. We'll pick up some wins and we'll be happy at times and wondering how the fuck did we do that? Then there will be games where we lose and the sky falls in.

The turning point for us will be when Benteke returns to any sort of form. The drop off has been stunning and is affecting everyone in the side. That for me is very evident to see. When you think what he was doing last season and immediately prior to his injury it's amazing to think how low his confidence is right now. Fix that, and a lot of things fall back into place. He was doing things instinctively last season. Right now he isn't sure of the most basic aspects of his game. As Benteke goes we go and our opponents are finding us very easy to defend against when the beast isn't the beast.

[London Villan]

If Benteke was putting in the same kind of effort he was last season it might have an effect...

[eastie]

There was never a peanlty. It was an appalling decision.

I wouldn't say appalling , but harsh yes.
The sort of pen that home teams may get but away teams wouldn't .
Appalling decisions are those in cases of diving or handballs that aren't - I'd say this was more on the 50/50 category, favouring the home side.

No doubt the gabby one should have been a pen but I'm not too worried about the decisions as we deserved to get beat with that display.

[BoskoDjembaSalifou]

It's too easy to say the poor performances are a result of Benteke's loss of form. What about Weimann, Westwood, KEA etc? When are they gonna put a shift in? If anything, I feel sorry for Benteke, it can't be easy playing with players who play like they haven't seen a ball before in their life.

[adrenachrome]

we're a mid table team doing what mid table teams do. Lose some, win some. We'll win some we shouldn't, we'll also lose some we shouldn't. We'll have very little consistency as will all of those sides around us. Yesterday we lost one that on form we shouldn't but against a side that has the quality in their squad to be exactly where we are this season. Fulham had massively underperformed under Jol. I expect that in January we'll have more points and be sitting close to where we are now. We'll pick up some wins and we'll be happy at times and wondering how the fuck did we do that? Then there will be games where we lose and the sky falls in.

The turning point for us will be when Benteke returns to any sort of form. The drop off has been stunning and is affecting everyone in the side. That for me is very evident to see. When you think what he was doing last season and immediately prior to his injury it's amazing to think how low his confidence is right now. Fix that, and a lot of things fall back into place. He was doing things instinctively last season. Right now he isn't sure of the most basic aspects of his game. As Benteke goes we go and our opponents are finding us very easy to defend against when the beast isn't the beast.

Are we "a mid table team doing what mid table teams do", though?  Or are we an experimental team doing what no other established PL club has done before by steadfastly refusing to bring in players with proven PL experience?

[Toronto Villa]

It's too easy to say the poor performances are a result of Benteke's loss of form. What about Weimann, Westwood, KEA etc? When are they gonna put a shift in? If anything, I feel sorry for Benteke, it can't be easy playing with players who play like they haven't seen a ball before in their life.

not one of those guys are remotely as important to us as Benteke. He elevates their games as all great players do for the lesser players around them. He not only makes things happen for himself with a moment of sheer genius but his play and intelligence makes it that much easier for the others. Look at the second goal Weimann scored against Sunderland last year and how Benteke took two players with him opening space for Weimann to receive Lowton's pass in acres of space. Look at the back heel at Anfield. Those things happen because Benteke is occupying the thoughts of the opposition defenders and doing things most others can't or don't even think of doing. I'm not making an excuse for basic things like our recent inability to pass 5yds to a player of the same shirt colour. It is a much bigger picture statement. As a mid table team with a superstar player playing at his peak will elevate to the fringes of the group ahead of us and separate us completely from the mess below.

[Toronto Villa]

we're a mid table team doing what mid table teams do. Lose some, win some. We'll win some we shouldn't, we'll also lose some we shouldn't. We'll have very little consistency as will all of those sides around us. Yesterday we lost one that on form we shouldn't but against a side that has the quality in their squad to be exactly where we are this season. Fulham had massively underperformed under Jol. I expect that in January we'll have more points and be sitting close to where we are now. We'll pick up some wins and we'll be happy at times and wondering how the fuck did we do that? Then there will be games where we lose and the sky falls in.

The turning point for us will be when Benteke returns to any sort of form. The drop off has been stunning and is affecting everyone in the side. That for me is very evident to see. When you think what he was doing last season and immediately prior to his injury it's amazing to think how low his confidence is right now. Fix that, and a lot of things fall back into place. He was doing things instinctively last season. Right now he isn't sure of the most basic aspects of his game. As Benteke goes we go and our opponents are finding us very easy to defend against when the beast isn't the beast.

Are we "a mid table team doing what mid table teams do", though?  Or are we an experimental team doing what no other established PL club has done before by steadfastly refusing to bring in players with proven PL experience?

I think the table doesn't lie. It's easy to look at our flaws and say we've been lucky. But others teams for whatever reason haven't been able to capitalise. Part of that is luck, part of that is because we've improved. A mid table team almost by definition hasn't got everything right and sit in that position because they themselves are completely unpredicatable one week to next. The other aspect is just that we've gone about getting to where we are in a very non traditional manner. At times last season we looked spectacular; good and bad. We've matured a little now where we are neither spectacularly good or bad. We haven't hit the heights of some of our best games and are nowhere close to the depths of our worst moments.

[BoskoDjembaSalifou]

It's too easy to say the poor performances are a result of Benteke's loss of form. What about Weimann, Westwood, KEA etc? When are they gonna put a shift in? If anything, I feel sorry for Benteke, it can't be easy playing with players who play like they haven't seen a ball before in their life.

not one of those guys are remotely as important to us as Benteke. He elevates their games as all great players do for the lesser players around them. He not only makes things happen for himself with a moment of sheer genius but his play and intelligence makes it that much easier for the others. Look at the second goal Weimann scored against Sunderland last year and how Benteke took two players with him opening space for Weimann to receive Lowton's pass in acres of space. Look at the back heel at Anfield. Those things happen because Benteke is occupying the thoughts of the opposition defenders and doing things most others can't or don't even think of doing. I'm not making an excuse for basic things like our recent inability to pass 5yds to a player of the same shirt colour. It is a much bigger picture statement. As a mid table team with a superstar player playing at his peak will elevate to the fringes of the group ahead of us and separate us completely from the mess below.

But we should be able to cope when Benteke isn't playing well. That's my main issue with Lambert, there's no plan B at all.

[pauliewalnuts]

They're not as important as Benteke, no, but they are when they all lose form at the same time.

I have to say, I am not too sure how much players being out of form explains or justifies some of the awful football. Isn't the manager's job supposed to be to get these players in form? Surely it's not something which just happens and lasts as long as it can, without managerial interference?

[supertom]

It's too easy to say the poor performances are a result of Benteke's loss of form. What about Weimann, Westwood, KEA etc? When are they gonna put a shift in? If anything, I feel sorry for Benteke, it can't be easy playing with players who play like they haven't seen a ball before in their life.

I feel for him too. That said he won a lot of games by himself last season. Again we know he's a class above any of our outfield players on form, so the sooner he gets back to that the better.

The way we're playing, in part because some of the players aren't quite good enough at this level, we do need him to get back on form. An on form Tekkers could have scored 2-3 against Fulham, then we'd have all had a more pleasant Sunday evening.

[Rudy Can't Fail]

It's too easy to say the poor performances are a result of Benteke's loss of form. What about Weimann, Westwood, KEA etc? When are they gonna put a shift in? If anything, I feel sorry for Benteke, it can't be easy playing with players who play like they haven't seen a ball before in their life.

not one of those guys are remotely as important to us as Benteke. He elevates their games as all great players do for the lesser players around them. He not only makes things happen for himself with a moment of sheer genius but his play and intelligence makes it that much easier for the others. Look at the second goal Weimann scored against Sunderland last year and how Benteke took two players with him opening space for Weimann to receive Lowton's pass in acres of space. Look at the back heel at Anfield. Those things happen because Benteke is occupying the thoughts of the opposition defenders and doing things most others can't or don't even think of doing. I'm not making an excuse for basic things like our recent inability to pass 5yds to a player of the same shirt colour. It is a much bigger picture statement. As a mid table team with a superstar player playing at his peak will elevate to the fringes of the group ahead of us and separate us completely from the mess below.

But we should be able to cope when Benteke isn't playing well. That's my main issue with Lambert, there's no plan B at all.

Right now I'm more concerned with Plan A.

[supertom]

They're not as important as Benteke, no, but they are when they all lose form at the same time.

I have to say, I am not too sure how much players being out of form explains or justifies some of the awful football. Isn't the manager's job supposed to be to get these players in form? Surely it's not something which just happens and lasts as long as it can, without managerial interference?

That they don't look like they know what they're supposed to be doing once they get over the half way line is a big problem. Again, too much youth only adds to a lack of composure I suppose. Ultimately it does fall at Lamberts feet. The fact a Villa player gets on the ball, just has to roll it 5 yards to a team mate but somehow can't manage it, is inexcusable. I'm still utterly flabbergasted at how laughable our throw-ins are too. It's comically bad and has been all season. Luna in particular is woeful. When he's not foul throwing (I've seen him do it 2-3 times this season), he's tossing it straight to the opposition. It's bizarre.

The fact we don't appear to know what we're doing is more a cause for bad form in some players as opposed to a symptom I feel.

I still hold onto the hope that Lambert manage to identify a way of attacking effectively last season, and also did something to make our defence better in the summer, and hope that he can sort the mess out. If we can even start getting some basics right that'll be a start.

[bobdylan]

On the plus side our team full of inneffectual, out of form, youthful, naive players are comfortably in mid table whereas the likes of Fulham and West Ham are struggling to avoid the drop and paying enormous wages to the likes of Berbatov, Sidwell, Parker, Bent, Rodallega, Collins, J Cole, Downing, Carroll, Nolan etc etc.  Their wage bills must be far higher than ours.  I know we're not tearing up any trees, but even when we had experienced high earning players we were doing worse than this and struggling to stay up with the likes of Dunne, Collins, Ireland etc.

[Toronto Villa]

It's too easy to say the poor performances are a result of Benteke's loss of form. What about Weimann, Westwood, KEA etc? When are they gonna put a shift in? If anything, I feel sorry for Benteke, it can't be easy playing with players who play like they haven't seen a ball before in their life.

not one of those guys are remotely as important to us as Benteke. He elevates their games as all great players do for the lesser players around them. He not only makes things happen for himself with a moment of sheer genius but his play and intelligence makes it that much easier for the others. Look at the second goal Weimann scored against Sunderland last year and how Benteke took two players with him opening space for Weimann to receive Lowton's pass in acres of space. Look at the back heel at Anfield. Those things happen because Benteke is occupying the thoughts of the opposition defenders and doing things most others can't or don't even think of doing. I'm not making an excuse for basic things like our recent inability to pass 5yds to a player of the same shirt colour. It is a much bigger picture statement. As a mid table team with a superstar player playing at his peak will elevate to the fringes of the group ahead of us and separate us completely from the mess below.

But we should be able to cope when Benteke isn't playing well. That's my main issue with Lambert, there's no plan B at all.

we should you're right but it isn't always as straightforward as that and especially when you're plan A when it works is very good. When it has collapsed as it has it affects everything else. I don't know of many teams that have a Plan B anything close to as effective as their primary strategy. The very best teams have the depth that the drop off isn't as drastic.

[Toronto Villa]

They're not as important as Benteke, no, but they are when they all lose form at the same time.

I have to say, I am not too sure how much players being out of form explains or justifies some of the awful football. Isn't the manager's job supposed to be to get these players in form? Surely it's not something which just happens and lasts as long as it can, without managerial interference?

that's what bothers me the most is that collectively we've all but forgotten the very basics. Surely the intent to defend better or that the star striker isn't on form doesn't equal us being unable to string two or three passes together. It's like everyone has suddenly become the anti-Spaniard Carlos Cuellar when controlling the football.