WBA v Aston Villa Post-Match Thread

[Dave Clark Five]

Some of the comments on here defy logic.

Have you read the match thread? It seems to mirror a lot of what was being said at the game.

[eastie]

Tim Westwood is what we have at the moment. Lambert is managing him by bugging him up. That is his job. Progress is painful, its slow. Its progress though.
Some of the comments on here defy logic. For the first time in years were having stability. We needed it.

Spelling error...surely you mean buggering

Oh I say , surely not

[Rudy Can't Fail]

I'd take issue with the reference to "Villa's game of kick and rush".

Really? How else would you describe our tactics?

[ez]

A pleasing result for us in the end. The albion fans were singing away like the game was in the bag and it was just a question of how many. One thing I've learned over the years watching villa is not to start laughing at the opposition too early. It will probably be remembered more than some of our wins this season. There's not much between the two sides now although I expect us to finish higher than we did last season and them to finish lower than they did.

[peter w]

Can I just add that some of the criticism of the manager, his tactics and the line up are ridiculous, and indeed arrogant.

Most fools would follow conventional wisdom, ie. if he's fit enough for the bench, he's fit enough to start etc. but that is plainly one of those football truisms that's just bollocks.

Had they all started, then there's a good chance they would have faded, and in the back of their mind they'd be thinking of saving themselves a bit to go 90 minutes.

What we instead saw was them come on knowing they could go flat out for 30 mins against tiring legs.

It's a judgement call, but to pillory for him when he probably got it spot on is just crap

And also, he moved Delph out to left wing back, and that completely locked that side up when we were getting murdered down there, so kudos again.

That would have been theplan whethr 2-0 down or not I reckon. Maybe not all 3 but two of them at least and have run against tiringlegs whilst still in the game.  being 2 down and not playing particularly made him gamble on all 3 coming on. A risk which came off. Good managers learn to be lucky ones also. and welldone the team for keeping the tempo up when we were chasing the game.

[Chris Smith]

I'd take issue with the reference to "Villa's game of kick and rush".

Really? How else would you describe our tactics?

Pressure the opposition high up the pitch, to win the ball back and get at them before they can reorganise. It's how a lot of teams in England play, it's too cold to ponce around at half pace like they do in Portugal. ;¬)

Seriously, when we're playing well it's a pressing game or a counter attacking game depending on circumstances but we also do try to play a more measured game when get the opportunity, it's just that style takes a while to develop.

[ez]

The biggest surrender since Villa surrendered the three points in January.

Bitterly disappointed to have thrown the game away but really not surprised. It was evident that once Villa got their first that the equaliser was going to come at some point - I'm just glad that our bottlers didn't give it away completely and give them a third.

I thought we was very good in the first half although I think Villa being totally abject may somewhat have enhanced our performance in my view. I certainly feel we could play better. I've been a critic of Shane Long over the past couple of months but he was very good in the first half, he caused them endless amounts of problems and took both goals extremely well. We should really have put the game behind you in the first half.  Stephane Sessegnon missed a sitter and then did exactly the same in the second half.

The second half was a total calamity. Clarke didn't react to Villa making the three subs and we tended to play Villa's game of kick and rush rather than our own. They got in our faces, made life difficult and therefore our ball retention became very poor.

Mulumbu and Long were the stand out performers for me. Extremely disappointed in Goran Popov who was at fault for both goals. The first he stood in no mans land forcing Brunt into a one on one situation with Bacuna and the second he headed the ball into the wrong area - a good striker from Westwood, however.

Fair play to Villa for turning round - the changes were obvious and I'm surprised all three weren't made at half time.

Disappointed but not surprised, either.

Fair enough comments mate .

I'd take issue with the reference to "Villa's game of kick and rush".

And it was two points surrendered in January as it was two last night.

[Olof's Beard]

Well I have read most of this thread and I still can't quite get my head round it.  We obviously started extremely badly, supplemented by a world class bit of skill and found ourselves 2-0.  This time last year we could have shipped six.  As it happens we spent fifteen minutes after the goal looking like that was exactly what would happen.  But then you could visibly watch the team develop the determination to turn it around half way through, Clark was really noticeably trying to get the team going for a start, as was El Ahmadi.  We actually grew into the game as the half wore on and it's absolute nonsense to say we could have been 5 down.  I am pretty sure they only had four or five shots, and we had more including hitting the bar.  Strangely, I actually think Kozak had his best game for us - his touch was much better and he looked more mobile.  Tonev is unbelievably raw and slightly overawed at the moment but will be used sparingly and come good.

In the 2nd half, we started off the better team, increasing our foothold in the game and allowing us to throw the three subs on who injected a bit of hunger and pace into the team which at least forced the Albion deeper and allowed us to cross from better areas.  Pace is still so important in English football and we had missed it.  You might say it's not subtle but it's certainly not wrong either.  We deserved our equaliser.

As for the criticism of Westwood, it just seems like a massive bandwagon to me.  He definitely started the season off colour but he has got better and better.  Only Vlaar played better than him last night for me and that was exactly the  type of performance he put in over the back end of last season.  He is essentially getting criticised for the same things he was praised for last year.  It's bizarre.

Vlaar was excellent.  Baker has his uses but struggles against particularly mobile forwards and whether he can work out a way of overcoming those limitations will define his career.  Clark was good, El Ahmadi worked hard and had a better second half, Bacuna and Sylla both had very bad nights, Benteke still a threat and won some important headers in the 2nd half.

They aren't a bad side and like us have acquitted themselves well against some of the best teams in the league this season.  We are both in a similar position, capable of beating anyone on our day but losing to anyone when it's not.  It's clearly progress, I don't understand how anyone can think otherwise.

[peter w]

*A half-decent sounding Baggie alert*


Disapointed yes. But thought vile would snatch it !
Therefore take a draw.
Should of seen game through however the subs were very successful for villa!

I'm sorry Curt but if you are happy with a point after being 2 0 after 15 minutes and at home then i feel sorry for you

why so? football is a 90 minute game, not a 15 minute game and anything can happen in between. We've seen 3 even 4 goal leads slip in the past, and even to the bigger clubs. It happens and i think people in their right mind feared that if delph/gabby etc came on it may have made them more competitive than they were, lo and behold it did. Its another point, keeps us ticking over and although slightly disappointed with letting a lead slip i won't lose too much sleep over it. Remember, they haven't beaten us since the 2010/11 season and for what were once our dominating rivals, that ain't bad at all

[ciggiesnbeer]

The biggest surrender since Villa surrendered the three points in January.

Bitterly disappointed to have thrown the game away but really not surprised. It was evident that once Villa got their first that the equaliser was going to come at some point - I'm just glad that our bottlers didn't give it away completely and give them a third.

I thought we was very good in the first half although I think Villa being totally abject may somewhat have enhanced our performance in my view. I certainly feel we could play better. I've been a critic of Shane Long over the past couple of months but he was very good in the first half, he caused them endless amounts of problems and took both goals extremely well. We should really have put the game behind you in the first half.  Stephane Sessegnon missed a sitter and then did exactly the same in the second half.

The second half was a total calamity. Clarke didn't react to Villa making the three subs and we tended to play Villa's game of kick and rush rather than our own. They got in our faces, made life difficult and therefore our ball retention became very poor.

Mulumbu and Long were the stand out performers for me. Extremely disappointed in Goran Popov who was at fault for both goals. The first he stood in no mans land forcing Brunt into a one on one situation with Bacuna and the second he headed the ball into the wrong area - a good striker from Westwood, however.

Fair play to Villa for turning round - the changes were obvious and I'm surprised all three weren't made at half time.

Disappointed but not surprised, either.

Fair enough comments mate .

I'd take issue with the reference to "Villa's game of kick and rush".

Particularly given their first hoofball goal.

[Liam_Baggies]

Particularly given their first hoofball goal.

Hoofball does great disservice to Chris Brunt who played a fantastically timed ball to Shane Long who used great technique to control the ball in the air and finish.

Had it been Jonas Olsson supplying the pass, I would have agreed with you.

[Liam_Baggies]

And it was two points surrendered in January as it was two last night.

I agree with that, too. Like last night, the game in January should have been past us before half time. Lichaj missed a great chance.

Last night was a complete role reversal.

[Rudy Can't Fail]

I'd take issue with the reference to "Villa's game of kick and rush".

Really? How else would you describe our tactics?

Pressure the opposition high up the pitch, to win the ball back and get at them before they can reorganise. It's how a lot of teams in England play, it's too cold to ponce around at half pace like they do in Portugal. ;¬)

Seriously, when we're playing well it's a pressing game or a counter attacking game depending on circumstances but we also do try to play a more measured game when get the opportunity, it's just that style takes a while to develop.

Ha! I agree Chris but rather than bury my head in the sand I'm concerned with the lack of tactics from Lambert. It appears that unless we have a full fit squad with everybody available, Lambert doesn't know what to do with the team. We look like a team that met for the first time 5 minutes before kick off. Last night's performance in the first half was shocking, as bad as I've seen in a very, very long time. We're not playing well and haven't for a few months and there are no signs of us improving, quite the opposite in fact.

We can rightly blame his signings that have been forced into the team when I'm sure he'd prefer to introduce them more slowly but like every other club, we can't guarantee that luxury. The point is, he works with them every day and one would imagine he tries to get them to play a certain way, what that way is I have no idea. We can blame the players but we both know the responsibility is his and to this day I still can't understand what he's trying to do.

My guess is he either has too much faith in his squad or too little. Which ever it is he's certainly not getting his message across at Bodymoor Heath. When we're good (if you can remember that far back) we're fine but anything less and we look like the most disjointed team around. We can hardly string three passes together unless you include playing the ball back to the keeper. Kick and rush sounds about right to me. Lambert and a few on here will defend it as fast counter attacking football. It isn't.

 

[ciggiesnbeer]

Particularly given their first hoofball goal.

Hoofball does great service to Chris Brunt who played a fantastically timed ball to Shane Long who used great technique to control the ball in the air and finish.

Had it been Jonas Olsson supplying the pass, I would have agreed with you.

Oh I get it, our winner against ManCity was the same way. I just dont think WBA can be pointing fingers when it comes to "kick and rush" tactics.

Anyway, good game. I genuinely enjoyed it. My takeaway is both teams desperately need at least one defender back from injury.

[Ron Manager]

Well I have read most of this thread and I still can't quite get my head round it.  We obviously started extremely badly, supplemented by a world class bit of skill and found ourselves 2-0.  This time last year we could have shipped six.  As it happens we spent fifteen minutes after the goal looking like that was exactly what would happen.  But then you could visibly watch the team develop the determination to turn it around half way through, Clark was really noticeably trying to get the team going for a start, as was El Ahmadi.  We actually grew into the game as the half wore on and it's absolute nonsense to say we could have been 5 down.  I am pretty sure they only had four or five shots, and we had more including hitting the bar.  Strangely, I actually think Kozak had his best game for us - his touch was much better and he looked more mobile.  Tonev is unbelievably raw and slightly overawed at the moment but will be used sparingly and come good.

In the 2nd half, we started off the better team, increasing our foothold in the game and allowing us to throw the three subs on who injected a bit of hunger and pace into the team which at least forced the Albion deeper and allowed us to cross from better areas.  Pace is still so important in English football and we had missed it.  You might say it's not subtle but it's certainly not wrong either.  We deserved our equaliser.

As for the criticism of Westwood, it just seems like a massive bandwagon to me.  He definitely started the season off colour but he has got better and better.  Only Vlaar played better than him last night for me and that was exactly the  type of performance he put in over the back end of last season.  He is essentially getting criticised for the same things he was praised for last year.  It's bizarre.

Vlaar was excellent.  Baker has his uses but struggles against particularly mobile forwards and whether he can work out a way of overcoming those limitations will define his career.  Clark was good, El Ahmadi worked hard and had a better second half, Bacuna and Sylla both had very bad nights, Benteke still a threat and won some important headers in the 2nd half.

They aren't a bad side and like us have acquitted themselves well against some of the best teams in the league this season.  We are both in a similar position, capable of beating anyone on our day but losing to anyone when it's not.  It's clearly progress, I don't understand how anyone can think otherwise.

I agree that Kozak played well. He has shown an improvement in recent weeks which is down to hard work on the training ground.