Alan McCafu

[Chris Smith]

When I have been involved in redundancy situations at work there have always been problems trying to ensure that those who know they are going don't have a detrimental impact on the attitude and motivation of those that are staying. I guess that was the reason for not including them in first team affairs, clearly that was a mistake but I doubt anyone expected it to drag on for this long.

[Villa in Denmark]

That's fair enough in the real world, however shit it might be, but it's a different situation in the Alice in Wonderland world that is the PL.

Over and above that these players are employees with the human aspects to consider, they're also valuable assets and that value needs to be managed, just as a factory manages asset value by maintenance of equipment or an IT maximises the intellectual property value of it's software or hardware designs.

Unless these players showed signs of being disruptive influences or deliberately not trying, they should have been included, as playing is / was the only way to maintain any semblance of value on these valuable assets.

The one thing that above all else the club really deserves criticism for is the appalling way the value of the squad has been managed.

I've no real hard figures for this, but thinking about the players we've transferred in and out over the last few years, other than the obvious 3, we've pissed god knows how many millions away, both as actual cash by buying for millions and seeing players either walk away for nothing or nominal fees - the money Randy has pumped into the club - and recorded losses due to the amortization of contracts without any value to write back on as contracts are renewed.

I would guess that this as much as anything is what has driven the move to cheap, low wage signings. A very simplistic method to stem the accounting losses and hemorrhaging cash. Poor management consultant 101 actions which are shit enough in the real world and disastrous in football

[Chinchilla Bathhouse]

I don't know if I've missed something, but I'm racking my brains and I can barely think of any major discontent from the "bomb squad".  There seems to be a common assumption on here that these experienced professionals have been unjustly ostracised and mistreated, and yet, if that was the case, you'd expect transfer requests to slapped in with haste, subsequent transfers completed at almost any cost (if getting big-earners off the payroll was the point) and extensive slagging off of Lambert and the club in the press.  Yet, unless I've missed it, that hasn't happened at all.  Is this simply a case of modern professional footballers happily pocketing obscene wages without actually playing football to earn it?  Or has there been any furore from those involved, and I've just blanked it out for my own sanity's sake?     

[tomd2103]

I don't know if I've missed something, but I'm racking my brains and I can barely think of any major discontent from the "bomb squad".  There seems to be a common assumption on here that these experienced professionals have been unjustly ostracised and mistreated, and yet, if that was the case, you'd expect transfer requests to slapped in without haste, subsequent transfers completed at almost any cost (if getting big-earners off the payroll was the point) and extensive slagging off of Lambert and the club in the press.  Yet, unless I've missed it, that hasn't happened at all.  Is this simply a case of modern professional footballers happily pocketing obscene wages without actually playing football to earn it?  Or has there been any furore from those involved, and I've just blanked it out for my own sanity's sake?     

Wouldn't be surprised to be honest.  You only have to look at Wolves and the likes of O'Hara, to see it happens at a lot of clubs.  My guess is that some players in that position probably feel that their next contract will be nothing like their current one, so are more than willing to sit it out and earn top money while they can.  They may also think that a year or two mid-career break from football could extend their playing years, so are more than happy to sit tight.   

[Merv]

What's West Brom's offer for Hutton? Is it a serious one, or are they looking to sign him for free, with a year left on his contract? Perhaps they also expect us to contribute to his wages next season? If the deal's not worth doing for Villa, it may be better off him staying.

[RussellC]

What's West Brom's offer for Hutton? Is it a serious one, or are they looking to sign him for free, with a year left on his contract? Perhaps they also expect us to contribute to his wages next season? If the deal's not worth doing for Villa, it may be better off him staying.

And I suppose the other aspect is us not strengthening (stop laughing at the back) a rival.

[Damo70]

I don't know if I've missed something, but I'm racking my brains and I can barely think of any major discontent from the "bomb squad".  There seems to be a common assumption on here that these experienced professionals have been unjustly ostracised and mistreated, and yet, if that was the case, you'd expect transfer requests to slapped in without haste, subsequent transfers completed at almost any cost (if getting big-earners off the payroll was the point) and extensive slagging off of Lambert and the club in the press.  Yet, unless I've missed it, that hasn't happened at all.  Is this simply a case of modern professional footballers happily pocketing obscene wages without actually playing football to earn it?  Or has there been any furore from those involved, and I've just blanked it out for my own sanity's sake?     

Wouldn't be surprised to be honest.  You only have to look at Wolves and the likes of O'Hara, to see it happens at a lot of clubs.  My guess is that some players in that position probably feel that their next contract will be nothing like their current one, so are more than willing to sit it out and earn top money while they can.  They may also think that a year or two mid-career break from football could extend their playing years, so are more than happy to sit tight.   

My understanding is that a signing on fee is split equally over each year of the contract. If you request a move you forfeit the rest of the payments. So players prefer to sit tight for a move r if they push for a move the club puts pressure on them to submit a transfer request.

[john e]

Although it sounds like the best thing to do is to start integrating Bent , Hutton etc back into the main squad
It will only take a couple of games to realise why they were in the bomb squad in the first place, because they are cack, they will not be returning as good players but probably worse ones that they once were

The match day threads will be full of ' Bent should never wear the shirt again' and 'Hutton is an incompetent thug' this is virtually guaranteed, same goes for Nzogbia

Sorry but we are better of without them

[Villa in Denmark]

I don't know if I've missed something, but I'm racking my brains and I can barely think of any major discontent from the "bomb squad".  There seems to be a common assumption on here that these experienced professionals have been unjustly ostracised and mistreated, and yet, if that was the case, you'd expect transfer requests to slapped in with haste, subsequent transfers completed at almost any cost

The point is not that they've been unfairly treated or been paragons of virtue by not bitching to the press.

The point is that the don't appear to have caused any disruption either before or after being sent to train as the bomb squad.

I think the club almost hoped for the scenario you describe and the players trying to force moves, which would be yet another example of naivety from the club.

If they wanted rid, the best way of achieving this would surely have been to keep then around the first team and let it be known behind the scenes that they were available for transfer.  That way we get some value out of their wages and a better chance of shifting them for a half decent fee.

[RussellC]

If they wanted rid, the best way of achieving this would surely have been to keep then around the first team and let it be known behind the scenes that they were available for transfer.  That way we get some value out of their wages and a better chance of shifting them for a half decent fee.

Brian Little made almost exactly the same point yesterday;

http://www.birminghammail.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/aston-villa-brian-little-backs-7431922

[pauliewalnuts]

If they wanted rid, the best way of achieving this would surely have been to keep then around the first team and let it be known behind the scenes that they were available for transfer.  That way we get some value out of their wages and a better chance of shifting them for a half decent fee.

It's also not as if we were the first team ever to find themselves with players surplus to requirements, so god knows why we thought it would be a good idea to bomb them out like that.

[paul_e]

All clubs have players who aren't involved and are clearly up for sale, the only difference is that 1 or 2 of the players that we put in that group gave the press a nice 'bomb squad' soundbite and it's stuck.

A lot of people on here are guilty of reading everything that's reported about Villa, reading bits and pieces about other clubs and then wondering why they hear so much more bad press about Villa.

[Villa in Denmark]

john e I agree that we're better off without them for a host of reasons, both economic and footballing.

The question is how to achieve that with the best financial result possible.  Given the financial constraints we operate under these days, just imagine the difference to the squad if we could have raised an extra 3-4 million a year to spend on Vlaar level signings instead of Luna or Helenius who have been just cheaper bomb squad material for most of last season.

[Villa in Denmark]

All clubs have players who aren't involved and are clearly up for sale, the only difference is that 1 or 2 of the players that we put in that group gave the press a nice 'bomb squad' soundbite and it's stuck.

A lot of people on here are guilty of reading everything that's reported about Villa, reading bits and pieces about other clubs and then wondering why they hear so much more bad press about Villa.

I agree about the point that we, quite naturally, tend to read way more about Villa than any other team and dissect what we read to the nth degree.

I'd also agree that the bomb squad tag was a nice sound bite, originating from Hutton in an interview at the start of last season if I remember rightly.

But for other clubs, perception seems to be that yes, they all have players that they want to move on for.whatever reason, but they're not totally ostracized in the way we've handled our unwanted players.

That it's public knowledge that they're training away from the first team, even before squad.numbers were announced puts us in a weak bargaining position.
Not to mention they pure waste of wages.
As poor as he is, I can't believe that there weren't times last season where we were playing a flat back 4 without Lowton, where Bacuna in front if Hutton wouldn't have been better than Bacuna getting ripped to shreds behind KEA.

As someone who agrees that we shouldn't be basing our play around Bent, again if we're going to go all gung-ho 4 up front for the last 10 minutes when trying to salvage something from a game, or whatever it is Lambert tries to do in those situations who's more likely to.convert a half chance in the box, Bent or one of Holt, Gabby or Wieman?

Ironically Ireland was just a waste of fresh air and beyond salvaging anything from, yet he was the one we managed where we at least duck some of his wages.

[Gregorys Boy]

He has done bugger all for us, and apart from kicking lumps out of players I don't see what he offers at this level, lets get two mil for him and move on.