Is this what transition looks like?

[walsall villain]

I think the difference is that under McLeish they we sent out to play that way.  With Lambert, it's more of a case of just not playing very well.

So

a) you don't think Lambert purposefly sent us out against West Ham with basically an 8 man defence against a team with no recognized striker
b) but if McLeish had done exactly the same you'd have claimed it was intentional

that's some odd conclusions to my mind

I think McLeish did intentional defend with as many as possible. Wasn't 8, more likely 9 thinking about games like spurs at home.
The first 30 minutes of the last home game showed there was not much wrong with us apart from taking our chances and I fully expect us to win this weekend and start a bit of a run. Bringing in players with no premier league experience is always likely to mean we start slowly and gradually improve as players get used to the pace and skill level, expecting the likes of Tonev and Bacuna to go up a gear any time now.

[pauliewalnuts]

A point at West Ham is not a terrible result, but it was a pretty grim display and a throwback to the sort of football that played such a large part in securing people's support for Lambert in the first place (ie "just don't have us playing like the last bloke did, and you'll start off with a decent block of support").

I think the difference is that under McLeish they we sent out to play that way.  With Lambert, it's more of a case of just not playing very well.  The fact that we can now play poorly and not get a tonking is to the manager's credit, yet some, and I'm not saying you in particular, seem to be using it as a neagtive.  And that simply baffles me.

I think the people who say that would counter with the suggestion that the fact that we're playing poorly so often is the major problem.

I think the McLeish problem was that was what he does. The results may have improved but the quality wouldn't have.

[pauliewalnuts]

I think the difference is that under McLeish they we sent out to play that way.  With Lambert, it's more of a case of just not playing very well.

a) you don't think Lambert purposefly sent us out against West Ham with basically an 8 man defence against a team with no recognized striker

We were also playing against a team who were very likely to pack the midfield and could afford to throw two or three of them into the box, which they did. If Benteke puts his two chances away, the so called 8 man defence wouldn't have been mentioned.

As i said earlier, it's of interest that the closest we came to scoring in that game was the exact moment when we first put together some decent possession. It's not a coincidence.

Had we sat back and launched long balls at Benteke (which is what we did most of that game) and played till we scored, we'd still be waiting now.

[Ads]

We conceded at Norwich last year

JHC, well we scored two their last season, so i assume that means it's also a massive downturn on last season ?

I don't think so. An inability to keep a clean sheet put us under a lot of pressure last season, the fact we have managed to grind out results this time around, away from home at least, is pleasing.

[sirlordbaltimore]

Last season we scored 2 and let in 1
This season we scored 1 and let in 0

Both outcomes, 3 points and a goal difference of +1

[LeeB]

The 2-1 is actually better, as goals scored count for more if you're level on goal difference.

What the point is of all this though, I don't know.

[Ads]

Last season we scored 2 and let in 1
This season we scored 1 and let in 0

Both outcomes, 3 points and a goal difference of +1

Its not a big issue. I am merely making the point that I think going away from home and winning 1-0 is something to be pleased with, especially given our record until then for leaking goals in nigh on every game.

[SamTheMouse]

Some will say the results are all-important, some will say it's the performance. I reckon most of us would like a bit of both. One's improved this season, the other seems to have slid.

Lambert's not under pressure, nobody's calling for his head, and frankly if he keeps us in the division without all the panic attacks we all had last year, that will be enough of an achievement in itself. But it would be nice to see some signs that he remains committed to playing an attractive, attacking style, and not resorting to the sort of limited approach we've seen under previous managers (and I'm thinking more of O'Neill than McLeish).

However, someone pointed out earlier that he bid for that young Japanese lad, and if you think about it, that is quite reassuring. He's known to be a horses for courses manager, so I suspect he's being pragmatic for the moment and trying to build some confidence in the defence. Which is fair enough.

[eastie]

Some will say the results are all-important, some will say it's the performance. I reckon most of us would like a bit of both. One's improved this season, the other seems to have slid.

Lambert's not under pressure, nobody's calling for his head, and frankly if he keeps us in the division without all the panic attacks we all had last year, that will be enough of an achievement in itself. But it would be nice to see some signs that he remains committed to playing an attractive, attacking style, and not resorting to the sort of limited approach we've seen under previous managers (and I'm thinking more of O'Neill than McLeish).

However, someone pointed out earlier that he bid for that young Japanese lad, and if you think about it, that is quite reassuring. He's known to be a horses for courses manager, so I suspect he's being pragmatic for the moment and trying to build some confidence in the defence. Which is fair enough.

Keeping us in the division will not be an achievement in my book - I believe with the money at his disposal since he arrived that we should be looking to finish top 12 at least.

We are Aston Villa not hull or wigan.

[Clampy]

Some will say the results are all-important, some will say it's the performance. I reckon most of us would like a bit of both. One's improved this season, the other seems to have slid.

Lambert's not under pressure, nobody's calling for his head, and frankly if he keeps us in the division without all the panic attacks we all had last year, that will be enough of an achievement in itself. But it would be nice to see some signs that he remains committed to playing an attractive, attacking style, and not resorting to the sort of limited approach we've seen under previous managers (and I'm thinking more of O'Neill than McLeish).

However, someone pointed out earlier that he bid for that young Japanese lad, and if you think about it, that is quite reassuring. He's known to be a horses for courses manager, so I suspect he's being pragmatic for the moment and trying to build some confidence in the defence. Which is fair enough.

Keeping us in the division will not be an achievement in my book - I believe with the money at his disposal since he arrived that we should be looking to finish top 12 at least.

We are Aston Villa not hull or wigan.

He probably meant keep us in the division without the shenanigans of last season like having to rely on Arsenal and Swansea to beat Wigan.

[eastie]

Some will say the results are all-important, some will say it's the performance. I reckon most of us would like a bit of both. One's improved this season, the other seems to have slid.

Lambert's not under pressure, nobody's calling for his head, and frankly if he keeps us in the division without all the panic attacks we all had last year, that will be enough of an achievement in itself. But it would be nice to see some signs that he remains committed to playing an attractive, attacking style, and not resorting to the sort of limited approach we've seen under previous managers (and I'm thinking more of O'Neill than McLeish).

However, someone pointed out earlier that he bid for that young Japanese lad, and if you think about it, that is quite reassuring. He's known to be a horses for courses manager, so I suspect he's being pragmatic for the moment and trying to build some confidence in the defence. Which is fair enough.

Keeping us in the division will not be an achievement in my book - I believe with the money at his disposal since he arrived that we should be looking to finish top 12 at least.

We are Aston Villa not hull or wigan.

He probably meant keep us in the division without the shenanigans of last season like having to rely on Arsenal and Swansea to beat Wigan.

Maybe , but I would hope and expect to be closer to the top 10 than the bottom 3 come may.

[paul_e]

Last season we scored 2 and let in 1
This season we scored 1 and let in 0

Both outcomes, 3 points and a goal difference of +1

Its not a big issue. I am merely making the point that I think going away from home and winning 1-0 is something to be pleased with, especially given our record until then for leaking goals in nigh on every game.

In all honesty you're wasting your time typing here, anyone who can ignore the fact that we've taken 6 points against 2 of the best sides in Europe compared to no points in those games last year and are mid table despite a very difficult start to the season has clearly got such a firmly set opinion that it's best to just leave them to it and move on.

We have had 2-3 disappointing games this season and the attack hasn't quite clicked yet but it's pretty obvious that there is more to come and the evidence of the last 18months is that we're not going to have to get used to performances like West Ham so i don't really understand why so many people are so eager to start saying we're in a relegation battle again and we're playing as badly as under TSM.  The other issue with this is that you often see comments about how "it's my opinion and I have the right to state it" but the same people are always very quick to talk down anyone who suggests things are actually going quite well, you can't have it both ways I'm afraid.

[sirlordbaltimore]

and frankly if he keeps us in the division without all the panic attacks we all had last year, that will be enough of an achievement in itself

I sincerely hope you're joking?

[paul_e]

and frankly if he keeps us in the division without all the panic attacks we all had last year, that will be enough of an achievement in itself

I sincerely hope you're joking?

would being safely midtable with 5-6 games to go not count as progress then?  That's the reality of what STM said and it rightly has to be considered an improvement, regardless of anything else really.

[eastie]

I would be fairly happy with a points tally of 50 or more points this season , which should see us around the top 10.