Aston Villa v Everton Post-Match Thread

[edgysatsuma89]

thought we played some good football today, there is light at the end of the tunnel, should have won today. delph, westwood, weiman, baker.and vlaar were superb.
we are building something special and we're not far off!

Wow. I'm all for optimism (because I'm unfortunately the opposite), but I really want whatever you're on. You can say we're 'building something' but to say 4 of those 5 were superb, you have to be on LSD.

I think I'm just jealous of your mind frame to be honest!

[Chinchilla Bathhouse]

Eulogising about Barry on MOTD now.  I know it was long debated on here but I can't help but think he would have made a massive difference to this side.
I like Lambert and what he's trying to do, but I do wonder whether we'd be better if randy could have convinced Martinez to come.

I celebrated when we turned down Martinez, I never thought he was good enough for us.

Looking back I could have been wrong. Fairplay to the man, he is doing a good job with Everton.

Martinez has taken over an established top six side that the previous manager spent a decade building; he’s walked into a club that already has arguably the best left back in the country, a myriad of international defenders and midfielders, and whose only really weak area last season was up front – which he has remedied with the loan of one of the best striking prospects in Europe.  In comparison, Lambert took over an utter shambles.  Everything about our club stank when he came along; he’s pretty much had to take it all apart and start again.  Did anybody really expect him to get everything right within a couple of years? 

Face it, we’re going to have lots of spells like this one, and like the one last Christmas, where we’re not happy with what we’re seeing; we’ll also have ones like April and August, when we see progress being made and it starts to make some sense.  That’s what happens when your team is full of young and inexperienced players; they’re inconsistent.  That’s inconsistent, as opposed to dreadful, which is what the team Lambert inherited was; don’t anyone forget that, that team reeked of relegation.  (And it had a lot of experience in it).

Unfortunately, that’s all pretty frustrating, but even more unfortunately, that’s just tough.  That’s where we are at the moment.  I think some people should start accepting that; it’s not settling for mediocrity, it’s accepting the reality.  It’s not forever, it’s for now.  We need some stability, we need to build some foundations, but it’s going to take time and patience.  What’s the alternative?  Sack Lambert and bring in Neil Warnock?

[ciggiesnbeer]

Eulogising about Barry on MOTD now.  I know it was long debated on here but I can't help but think he would have made a massive difference to this side.
I like Lambert and what he's trying to do, but I do wonder whether we'd be better if randy could have convinced Martinez to come.

I celebrated when we turned down Martinez, I never thought he was good enough for us.

Looking back I could have been wrong. Fairplay to the man, he is doing a good job with Everton.

Martinez has taken over an established top six side that the previous manager spent a decade building; he’s walked into a club that already has arguably the best left back in the country, a myriad of international defenders and midfielders, and whose only really weak area last season was up front – which he has remedied with the loan of one of the best striking prospects in Europe.  In comparison, Lambert took over an utter shambles.  Everything about our club stank when he came along; he’s pretty much had to take it all apart and start again.  Did anybody really expect him to get everything right within a couple of years? 

Face it, we’re going to have lots of spells like this one, and like the one last Christmas, where we’re not happy with what we’re seeing; we’ll also have ones like April and August, when we see progress being made and it starts to make some sense.  That’s what happens when your team is full of young and inexperienced players; they’re inconsistent.  That’s inconsistent, as opposed to dreadful, which is what the team Lambert inherited was; don’t anyone forget that, that team reeked of relegation.  (And it had a lot of experience in it).

Unfortunately, that’s all pretty frustrating, but even more unfortunately, that’s just tough.  That’s where we are at the moment.  I think some people should start accepting that; it’s not settling for mediocrity, it’s accepting the reality.  It’s not forever, it’s for now.  We need some stability, we need to build some foundations, but it’s going to take time and patience.  What’s the alternative?  Sack Lambert and bring in Neil Warnock?

Good points, well made.

[edgysatsuma89]

Holloway's available 👍

[ciggiesnbeer]

Holloway's available 👍

Bloody hell man, dont even joke about it. 

[edgysatsuma89]

Holloway's available 👍

Bloody hell man, dont even joke about it.  ;D

Ha, awww actually I don't want to wake him. The poor bugger is awfully tired.

[JD]

Haven't seen the game or 'highlights' and don't know if I will. sounds like we should have been 2-3 up at half time and weren't and paid the price.

I wish we would start winning these games as I am getting sick of people asking me if I think Villa will avoid relegation this year. I want people to start talking it terms of what we might win and whether we will get into Europe. Sort it out Lambert. 

[Navin R Johnson]

It seems to me that what it boils down to is we must endure week after week of games like that one yesterday, the Spurs game and the Hull game on the promise that Lambert will get it right.  I respect the posters who point out that the club was in a mess when Lambert came but in all truth I see very little improvement in real terms on where we were when O'Neill flounced out.

Yes, I give you that we have tried to play a better, more fluent game but even that has been abandoned and hoofball rules again.  We saw yesterday Benteke on the pitch and two target men centre forwards were on the bench.   We come under pressure and the ball gets lumped forward.   THAT is what is happening.   It should not be happening and is nowhere in the master plan that we are encouraged to believe Lambert has.   Even on BT Sport the other evening a summarizer being critical of an Italian game said of a piece of play "that was pure Guzan lumping it forward".   THAT is how we are seen in football at this time.

To buy into the Lambert master plan where everything works out fine at some indeterminate point in the future you have take on board that Lambert is a shrewd and canny, insightful operator.   He is well into his second season with us and I see no concrete evidence that he is any of those things.

The very core of our malaise is our absentee owner.   Everton have an owner who is a poor man compared with Lerner but he is Everton through and through.   He puts every penny he has on the line for the club he loves and it shows.   We have an owner for whom our club is a sideshow, a hobby, an interest, left in the hands of others to run.

The owner has obviously, post MON, placed strict cash limits on what can and cannot be done with the simple directive to his board that losses are to be reduced and Premiership security achieved at an affordable cost.   Aston Villa has become a business, nothing more, nothing less.

So, Lambert, given his modest bag of money is like a man playing roulette in a casino who covers the table with small bets in order to maximise his winning chances.   That is not having a master plan.   That is playing the percentages and that is precisely what we are getting by way of results.   You finish up going skint.   Believe me I have been there (ask Bob).

What lies down this road is not some claret and blue dawn when all the bargain buys start to surge up the table and into the CL.   What lies down this road is collapsing attendances at games and our business oriented club executive become aware that the fans are not a crop to be harvested any more and Bent style signings are used to try to lure the crowds back.

This is nothing new at Villa Park.   Trevor Ford was my ealiest experience of the same situation fifty or more years ago.

How can I sum up my deep unease?

Paul Lambert does not have a master plan.   He is winging it.

[saunders_heroes]

thought we played some good football today, there is light at the end of the tunnel, should have won today. delph, westwood, weiman, baker.and vlaar were superb.
we are building something special and we're not far off!

What kind of bizarre hallucinating drugs have you been taking? Seriously, you must be watching a different Villa team to the rest of us to think that.

[eastie]

It seems to me that what it boils down to is we must endure week after week of games like that one yesterday, the Spurs game and the Hull game on the promise that Lambert will get it right.  I respect the posters who point out that the club was in a mess when Lambert came but in all truth I see very little improvement in real terms on where we were when O'Neill flounced out.

Yes, I give you that we have tried to play a better, more fluent game but even that has been abandoned and hoofball rules again.  We saw yesterday Benteke on the pitch and two target men centre forwards were on the bench.   We come under pressure and the ball gets lumped forward.   THAT is what is happening.   It should not be happening and is nowhere in the master plan that we are encouraged to believe Lambert has.   Even on BT Sport the other evening a summarizer being critical of an Italian game said of a piece of play "that was pure Guzan lumping it forward".   THAT is how we are seen in football at this time.

To buy into the Lambert master plan where everything works out fine at some indeterminate point in the future you have take on board that Lambert is a shrewd and canny, insightful operator.   He is well into his second season with us and I see no concrete evidence that he is any of those things.

The very core of our malaise is our absentee owner.   Everton have an owner who is a poor man compared with Lerner but he is Everton through and through.   He puts every penny he has on the line for the club he loves and it shows.   We have an owner for whom our club is a sideshow, a hobby, an interest, left in the hands of others to run.

The owner has obviously, post MON, placed strict cash limits on what can and cannot be done with the simple directive to his board that losses are to be reduced and Premiership security achieved at an affordable cost.   Aston Villa has become a business, nothing more, nothing less.

So, Lambert, given his modest bag of money is like a man playing roulette in a casino who covers the table with small bets in order to maximise his winning chances.   That is not having a master plan.   That is playing the percentages and that is precisely what we are getting by way of results.   You finish up going skint.   Believe me I have been there (ask Bob).

What lies down this road is not some claret and blue dawn when all the bargain buys start to surge up the table and into the CL.   What lies down this road is collapsing attendances at games and our business oriented club executive become aware that the fans are not a crop to be harvested any more and Bent style signings are used to try to lure the crowds back.

This is nothing new at Villa Park.   Trevor Ford was my ealiest experience of the same situation fifty or more years ago.

How can I sum up my deep unease?

Paul Lambert does not have a master plan.   He is winging it.

Very good post that mr g!

[silhillvilla]

Would anyone take MON back ?

[Brian Taylor]

He may be winging it but do we have a prayer? sorry player to rely on.

[PeterWithe]

A fit and sharp Benteke and we'd have had half a chance.

Some positives though, Baker looked pretty comfortable against Lukaku first half and moving him to LB enabled Everton to hit longer balls that were held up and to play in our defensive third more. Bachuna continued to look a threat, Tonev made some very good runs off the ball although there is still improvement needed when he actually got it. Finally Weimann showed glimpses of last year's form. In the debit column Benteke looked less than half fit and the substitutions both made us look less solid.

We'll play worse and win.

[eastie]

Would anyone take MON back ?

Randy wouldn't and that's all that matters.

[RossLeach]

If the first 60/65 mins of every game at home was as entertaining as yesterday we'd be full every week.

Delph and Westwood and Tonev very good up to that point. Should have been ahead.

Martinez changed the game with Osman coming on and we had nothing from the bench.

Maybe we could get Kagawa on loan if Moyes doesn't fancy him.....