Aston Villa v Tottenham Hotspur Post-Match Thread

[fredm]

Got to agree with Paul and Soccer on Baker, he is ok if the side he plays against are not the most technically thoughtful. Spurs just pulled him about.

I agree and I think this is also why he's not premiership quality. The majority of the teams are technically thoughtful now, and many clubs will continue to adapt to the more continental way of playing. I think that's also why were seeing clubs like Stoke and West Ham struggling a little. The more successful promoted clubs generally tend to play footy too, like Swansea and Soton.

I think the main problem Baker (and others) have is on the training ground at BH. When Spurs (for example) are training their defenders are up against Townsend, Salgado and especially Defoe with a point to prove. Think of the movement off the ball that the defenders are faced with. Then think of Baker facing Gabby etc. I bet he never has to look where he is as he hardly ever moves unless he has the ball at his feet. And I am not just picking on Gabby the others are just as bad. So when our defenders come up against players that are trained to move around and draw them out they don't really stand much of a chance.

[eastie]

No offence taken matt, but we do need to change things at home , playing bacuna and Bennett as wide midfielders helps protect Lowton and luna as our full backs are too often exposed - also it would provide width on the overlap and both have genuine crossing ability from out wide .
Gabby and Weimann are strikers being asked to play wider roles which doesn't come natural to them- they are too hit and miss and easy to combat at villa park.

Kozak would probably benefit playing alongside benteke where we have a twin strike threat with crosses coming in for them - bacuna also would be able to cut inside and provide more creativity than Westwood or kea .
Not a perfect system i know but as I said we are going nowhere persevering at home the way we currently do - lets give everton something to think about and provide a bit more width to our side while at the same time giving more protection to the full backs.

[Ron Manager]

Got to agree with Paul and Soccer on Baker, he is ok if the side he plays against are not the most technically thoughtful. Spurs just pulled him about.

I agree and I think this is also why he's not premiership quality. The majority of the teams are technically thoughtful now, and many clubs will continue to adapt to the more continental way of playing. I think that's also why were seeing clubs like Stoke and West Ham struggling a little. The more successful promoted clubs generally tend to play footy too, like Swansea and Soton.

I think the main problem Baker (and others) have is on the training ground at BH. When Spurs (for example) are training their defenders are up against Townsend, Salgado and especially Defoe with a point to prove. Think of the movement off the ball that the defenders are faced with. Then think of Baker facing Gabby etc. I bet he never has to look where he is as he hardly ever moves unless he has the ball at his feet. And I am not just picking on Gabby the others are just as bad. So when our defenders come up against players that are trained to move around and draw them out they don't really stand much of a chance.

You have made a good assesment of our problems. I was watching Sturridge a couple of weeks ago. His movement is excellent. Come to think of it so is Suarez's. We have (apart from Benteke) very basic players both in midfield and up front. Delph has obvious talent without thinking too much what he is going to do with the ball. Both Westwood and KEA do the simple things well without having a great deal of skill.

But there is very little money in the club. Lambert has invested 7mil on Kozak which is a hell of a lot of money for us and I shouldnt think the chairman will give him much more. Kozak ,so far, hasnt shown an awful lot that would lift him above Bowery in the pecking order.

Benteke has the competion of Lukaku for his World Cup place so he has to hit his top form before too long and that at the moment is the only thing we have to look forward to.

As I have said before Lambert is doing a good job with limited finance. Randy doesnt show any obvious interest in the club but neither looks likely to sell. So we can only hope Lambert gets it right and we do what Everton have done under Moyes in the past.  That is a top half finish and the occasional good performance.

[Brian Taylor]

Abroad and was surrounded by Spuds fans in a Med bar wondering why I was so quiet. Disappointed..and they thought they were lucky when over. A bit of polite post-match banter and analysis followed, and then we went our separate ways.

[Navin R Johnson]

Sorry eastie but I think Kozak is proving to be a luxury we cannot afford.   Premiership games come thick and fast and they are not the place to be easing a player into improvement.   Players coming into the Premiership have to hit the ground running.   The one thing a manager does not have is time.

Therein lies the crux of our problems.   For financial reasons (we assume) Lambert has been obliged to buy players with the potential to become Premiership standard.   One of his signings, Christian Benteke has adapted instantly and we have felt a huge benefit from his presence.   Others still have the jury out.   Some may make top half prem players others will not but we do not have the time to hang about for more than a week or two now to find out.   A poor run or like last year a disastrous Christmas and your season falls apart and you have to plunge young and undeveloped players into relegation dogfights.

In my own highly personal opinion, just my opinion, nothing else, Kozak looks a bad buy.   Not because there is not a competent striker in there somewhere underneath the lack of pace, ability in the air and lack of muscularity but because we do not have the time to spare to bring him out.   

[brontebilly]

 I think Bake3r will be a better defender than Clark.

 The problems today was no creativity up front.You could argue swap Gabby and Townsend, and we would have won.Its that fine a line.

re the Baker v Clark debate, Id have Clark ahead but they both arent good enough. Baker's lack of composure, footballing ability and positional sense arent good enough for the division he is playing in right now. Clark is slightly ahead on those three but lacks Baker's physical strength. I dont rate Vlaar all that much but if he gets injured......

Agreed on your second point, I didnt think there was much in the game bar we had no attacking threat in the middle third. Spurs had one and we gave him the freedom of their right flank in the second half. Paulinho added a decent threat breaking into our box which we lack too, he was key for the killer second goal which we handed them. Tactically AVB owned Lambert, shocking really how Luna was left one on one constantly against a player in great form. Gabby who was hopeless should have been put on the left of midfield to give Luna support.

Benteke scores that great chance and its a different game but we are really going to struggle for goals this season. I doubt Westwood, Sylla, Kea and Delph will get 5 league goals between then. Gabby and Weimann are horribly off form. Benteke will be key for us avoiding a relegation scrap I'm afraid. I thought Bacuna had a good game for us and made our best chance. Vlaar was solid enough, Delph had a decent game in midfield. I felt sorry for Delph actually as too many of our players hid when he was looking for options meaning he had to run with the ball more and lost it as a result. Tonev pulled a decent ball to the back post for the second game in a row late on but if Benteke doesnt score no-one will it seems. Kozak was utterly hopeless again I'm afraid, considering the lack of goal threat of midfield his signing really is making less sense by the week.

Guzan 7, Bacuna 7, Vlaar 6, Baker 5, Luna 4, Kea 4, Westwood 5, Delph 7, Weimann 5, Kozak 4, Gabby 4. benteke 6, Tonev 6, Sylla 5

[Clampy]

I didn't think we were that bad yesterday but overall not good enough. I think it's obvious now that Kozak in that Benteke role is not going to work. He looks like the kind of striker who needs a partner alongside him. As for the others, Delph had another solid game, as did Bacuna.

As for Dowd, he wasn't as bad as he normally is but he was still crap.

[eastie]

Sorry eastie but I think Kozak is proving to be a luxury we cannot afford.   Premiership games come thick and fast and they are not the place to be easing a player into improvement.   Players coming into the Premiership have to hit the ground running.   The one thing a manager does not have is time.

Therein lies the crux of our problems.   For financial reasons (we assume) Lambert has been obliged to buy players with the potential to become Premiership standard.   One of his signings, Christian Benteke has adapted instantly and we have felt a huge benefit from his presence.   Others still have the jury out.   Some may make top half prem players others will not but we do not have the time to hang about for more than a week or two now to find out.   A poor run or like last year a disastrous Christmas and your season falls apart and you have to plunge young and undeveloped players into relegation dogfights.

In my own highly personal opinion, just my opinion, nothing else, Kozak looks a bad buy.   Not because there is not a competent striker in there somewhere underneath the lack of pace, ability in the air and lack of muscularity but because we do not have the time to spare to bring him out.   

The thing is brian, that Kozak looks a bad buy because we are playing him in a system which doesn't suit him , give him a go alongside benteke and he may well flourish , with a bit or service from out wide.
The system we are playing with him clearly doesn't play to his strengths and therefore he looks a fish out of water.

[onje_villa]

Funny, I normally think of myself as on the negative side but I don't think we were half as bad as some are making out on here.

It's night and day from last season, we look far more solid, Vlaar has come on a lot, Delph played well, I thought KEA did OK though Westwood worried me yesterday.

It's clear that we lack real quality in midfield but hey we've known that for eons. I wonder if the ones on here getting really really down are the ones who thought we were suddenly sorted after the 3-2 with City?

[CJ]

Someone mentioned earlier on the thread that the most shocking thing about losing again is that it doesn't hurt as much as it used to.  It's getting the same for me and may be explained by either a) I'm getting old(er), or b) I go to VP more in hope than expectation these days.  Then I heard a shocking stat on MOTD last night so I had a quick look at Statto- and sure enough we've only won 10 of our last 42 home games (4 under TSM, 5 last season, and 1 so far this season), scoring an average of just 1.1 goals a game. That really is depressing and needs to get resolved. I'm not sure whether there is a nervousness in the players at VP, and for most of the game yesterday the atmosphere was again very subdued except for the 10 minutes or so after CB came on. If we could get the atmosphere to how it was against Citeh it would help, but it's very much a chicken and egg situation both with the atmosphere and results. Worrying that we're depending on our away form to stay in the top flight

[HG1Lions]

Some harsh treatment of KEA on here, he's improved massively this season and put's himself about abit.
Westwood was poor yesterday, surely Sylla deserves a chance after his performances at the end of last season.
We'll be ok, no relegation dogfight this season.

[Chris Smith]

I know that every defeat is Armageddon, but I thought that was a perfectly honourable defeat. The McLeish comparisons are demented: we pressed them from the first minute to the last, never became defeatist and were never uncompetitive.

Good things: Luna may have had a poor game against a terrific player in terrific form, but was actually really bright in attack; Delph faded late on and gave a few loose passes away, but dribbled like he was made of rubber for most of the game; Kozak has a brain in his head to make up for his other deficiencies, but Benteke just being on the pitch seemed to invigorate the players; Weimann and Gabby were direct and threatening (apart from their shooting), and Tonev had his best time in a Villa shirt so far. Oh, and we might just have the best keeper in the league.

Less good things: we clearly miss both Clark and Okore, and Baker wasn't great; KEA was a real nuisance in the first half but became somewhat listless, and Westwood had a somewhat anonymous game (Sylla was a bit sloppy when he came on); Bacuna's positioning was fairly nonexistent, though his energy and powerful dribbling were admirable; Weimann especially can't really shoot.

But most of all, we need a creative midfielder of the type of which Spurs have a surplus. No Eriksen, no Lamela, ten minutes of Dembele and that's totally fine by them. They're a much better side than us but we were never out of the game despite their superiority. We're a safe, up-and-down middling team who are generally more entertaining than we need to be, and that's all fine by me.

Pretty much sums it up for me. I'll just add that if the game had finished a draw I don't think anyone would be thinking "how the hell did we get away with that" - it was a close game that they just shaded.

[Phil from the upper holte]

I think Kozak hasn't been brilliant but you've got to give him time to settle in a new league, That being said I would put someone up front with Benteke, either Gabby or Weimann, but we cannot keep playing that 3 up front thing with Andi on the right. It just does not work and he drifts in and out of the game.

We need some width, Kick Lowton's arse and get bacuna on the right and get some bloody width

[aj2k77]

Expectations have almost hit rock bottom.

[Phil from the upper holte]

Tell you something else Everton is going to be no barrel of laughs either as they are playing well