Aston Villa v Tottenham Hotspur Post-Match Thread

[Clampy]

And if we're paying Given at least play him in these games.

What would be the point of that if Lambert sees Steer as his number 2?

[dekko]

I didn't bother posting as soon as I got back from the game, thought it better to sleep on it and I'd be less pissed off.  A few thoughts.

We were bad, but we weren't 4-0 bad.

Given the injuries and enforced abscences, theres not a lot Lambert could do about the squad selection, aside from maybe putting Weimann and Guzan in, but you've got to give the fringe players a chance some time.  Speaking of fringe players, I thought Albrighton tried his hardest and was probably our best player, but admittedly thats not saying much.

Helenius, Kozak, Tonev, Bacuna etc have all come in from worse leagues and will need time to adjust.  Ideally you'd only play one or two of them at a time to bed them in gradually.  Play a whole squad of them when they're not up to speed and you'll struggle whoever you play, which brings me on to.....

Spurs.  This wasn't exactly a Spurs B team - granted it wasn't the strongest side they could put out, but probably Sandro and certainly Paulhinho and Lamela plus a couple of others would walk into more or less any top 4 side.  Very tough opposition.

The really concerning things are some of the same shortcomings coming back again.  Not much of a plan for playing at home (although playing a good spuds side when you've got nearly a full XI of injuries to key players isnt the best time to shake things up).  Movement off the ball lacking - Kozak was winning all the headers and keeping the ball relatively well when it got to him, but a lot of the time Tonev and Albrighton were nowhere to be seen for him to flick on to.  At one point Tonev (who wasn't so trigger happy this time out) put a cross into the box, and depite having 3 strikers on the pitch there was nobody even in the area.  Ball retention very poor.

All in all, very disappointing but given the difference in quality between the two sides last night a defeat was always likely.  We'll finish comfortably mid-table, and Spurs will probably come close to winning the title (thats the difference between a well run club with shitloads of money and a badly run club thats one season in to a major rebuilding project).

UTV

[Damo70]

Just incredible how he wasn't penalised for that. Pathetic.

It wasn't just a penalty

It wasn't just a penalty and a Red Card

It was a penalty, a Red Card and a place on the Sex Offenders register

Unless your name is Paul Jewell, who found it hilarious and the penalty debate a mere distraction from the comedy of it. Presumably, when he was managing he would have laughed it off if it happened to his team.

[Dante Lavelli]

A Villa side missing its key players loses to Spurs. Mutiny!

And a very, very good Spurs side at that.

I'm surprsied by the reaction on here.  Maybe it'll be different today once people have slept on it.

If we sell Benteke then we'll have the opportunity to "financially dope" the squad to have more strength on the bench.  In the past 2 or 3 seasons Spurs have sold Modric and Bale and reinvested wisely, ending up with one of the country's strongest squads (for example I doubt there's much between that spurs side and their first XI). 

This has come about because they've been well run with Levy and often a Director's of Football ensuring that there is continuity from one manager to the next.  We've fundamentally failed on that front (and still have to an extent) but I'm not sure this result justifies aborting Lambert's mission in the way some are seemingly demanding.

[Hookeysmith]

I think people are very quick to forget that football today is not the same as 10 years ago. The difference in spend is not a few million here and there now, it is hundreds of millions of pounds. Spurs can afford it through massive ticket prices, London location and huge backers that are richer than Lerner. We can't. They put out a side tonight, their reserve side, that would probably be better than our first team all season. It is not being defeatest either, it is acknowledging that the playing field is so far tipped towards the money sides now, that those without have to plan differently.

Lambert is building. He has been in the job 15 months? If we are playing like this in 5 years I will be worried, but seriously, the reason Everton are in a good state for Martinez to build if because they gave Moyes 10 years despite finishing bottom 5 a couple of times. Swansea are an impressive side because they have stuck to a particular philosophy and approach over a long period of time.

Our next step is to spend say 30 million of the TV money on 3 players not 10. This will elevate the rest of the players and improve us no-end. At the moment we only have 3-4 class players and the rest are work men. We need more quality, but Lambert started pretty much from scratch and we need to give him 4-5 years IMO to sort it.

Hear hear

[Clampy]

I feel really sad that people running our club and team have already priortised avoiding relegation above all else with 5 games gone. I feel really sad that teams can turn up at the great Aston Villa football club and be given a walk over. I can not and will not support a manager who will not field the strongest team available in a cup tie at Villa Park.

Ok, with the players that were carrying knocks and injured, what side would you have put out?

[Dante Lavelli]

I think people are very quick to forget that football today is not the same as 10 years ago. The difference in spend is not a few million here and there now, it is hundreds of millions of pounds. Spurs can afford it through massive ticket prices, London location and huge backers that are richer than Lerner. We can't. They put out a side tonight, their reserve side, that would probably be better than our first team all season. It is not being defeatest either, it is acknowledging that the playing field is so far tipped towards the money sides now, that those without have to plan differently.

Lambert is building. He has been in the job 15 months? If we are playing like this in 5 years I will be worried, but seriously, the reason Everton are in a good state for Martinez to build if because they gave Moyes 10 years despite finishing bottom 5 a couple of times. Swansea are an impressive side because they have stuck to a particular philosophy and approach over a long period of time.

Our next step is to spend say 30 million of the TV money on 3 players not 10. This will elevate the rest of the players and improve us no-end. At the moment we only have 3-4 class players and the rest are work men. We need more quality, but Lambert started pretty much from scratch and we need to give him 4-5 years IMO to sort it.

Hear hear

You're bang on with your assessment there Ozzjim.

[silhillvilla]

I was at the game and I can confirm we were thoroughly shite. League 2 standard fayre.

[andyh]

If a defeat is 'always likely' like it was last night, then we as not bother going on Saturday!

We are quickly getting ourselves into the situation where we accept defeat too easily with reasons like, injuries, work in progress, long term plan, building for the future etc.

There is absolutely nothing wrong with this pragmatic approach, but it can't be the stock answer for every single, shit performance.

Questions have to be asked over the quality of players, the quality of football, and the ABSOLUTELY appalling home form of the last couple of years.

[dekko]

The 'always likely' comment wasn't meant to say that we should be happy about losing.  I'm going to be in a bad mood all week now.  I was just trying to say that it really shouldn't have come as a surprise, and certainly shouldn't be grounds for some of the wailing and knashing of teeth thats going on at the moment.

[supertom]

We should never be happy to accept losing 4-0 on our own turf, no matter who we play. I know Spurs are a better side than us. That's patently obvious. We didn't even look in the same league as them though. I'd say we looked league 1, but had they played a league 1 side they would have got a better game. An underdog side would have been well up for it and really raised their game.

I'm just not sure the players really know how to do on the pitch what Lambert aspires for them to do. We look utterly clueless on our own turf particularly. When we can just shift up to top gear and break on teams we look okay, but even that is going to become increasingly harder to do. Last night was just pathetic. We didn't even give it a go. I think we'd written the game off. Just like City in the cup a few years back, or Hamburg.

Last night was also a sad indication of life without Benteke.

I know Spurs have spunked 100 million on players. We've let a lot of sides just really push on whilst we slip away. With the TV money that came in, I'm quite sure we had the funds to buy a couple of standout players this window. I mean we spent 7 million on a player that left everyone, probably particularly Helenius, scratching their heads.

[Hookeysmith]

Not sure why only mentioned a couple of times but the debagging happened straight from the kick off and should have been a red as well as a pen - assuming we scored the pen (Big Brad is useless at them) then how can we possibly know that we would not have gone on with confidence and beat them?

Steer - Some decent stops but does not command the area, especially on set plays

Bennett - Thought he did very well against a guy who cost 20+ mil - possibly deserves the place for Saturday?
Vlaar - average and not totally convinced by him yet - he did however put a couple of great through balls from defence - including the one for the pant ripping event
Baker - thought he did really well  - did not deserve to be on the end of a 4-0
Lowton - shocking - does not get forward and was responsible for 2 goals against Barcodes and at least 2 last night - no wonder he was dropped

Tonev - obviously a #10 and not a wide player  - jury out on him at present due to being 1st season
Bacuna - large parts of the game i forgot he was playing
KEH - as others have said runs a lot but thats about it
Albrighton - decent shot, couple of decent crosses but too much of a luxury - 4 managers now to seal a regular place and it is not going to happen - shame but true
Sylla - Much better option with Westie / Delph than KEH

Kozak - worked hard but so isolated he never stood a chance

Spurs had 3 of their record signings on the pitch and the other one on the bench in case  - i agree with other the depth of their squad could see them actually challenging for the title even though i get a bit of sick in my mouth when i say it

Hopefully it would be at the expence of the red bastards falling out of the top 4
 

[Ads]

A Villa side missing its key players loses to Spurs. Mutiny!

And a very, very good Spurs side at that.

I'm surprsied by the reaction on here.  Maybe it'll be different today once people have slept on it.

Its because its Spurs and part of the reaction is an annoyance at just how well they have got things together down there. I'd be very worried as a Yanited fan, becuase I think Spurs have more quality all over the park. If Spurs had bagged Benteke, then they would be close to winning the whole show.

They're easily the best side we've played all season and that includes going to the Emirates (where Arsenal actually turned them over) and Stamford Bridge.

[Fin Feds Dad]

I agree with the majority of the posts on here - modern football is shit - and we are, unfortunately, one of the teams that has been caught most in the eye of the recent storms.

We all know the reasons - it's how we move forward which is the big question.

Their personnel was on a different level in every position to ours - and every year for the last few years they have passed us off the park.

Is that about money - or about a club / managers footballing ethos ?

It can't be just about money when you look how well a team such as Swansea knock the ball about. Sharp, incisive passing made easy by movement off the ball - even Wayne Routledge looks a different player down there now.

The most disappointing thing for me though was the attitude - we looked like we had given up before the start - and certainly more so in the second half.

The team needs a real leader - we haven't had one for too long now.

I also don't think Bennett was so bad - in fact, I would like to see him given a try in midfield with a Tony Moon at left back. I think he offers more for us in an advanced position. Bacuna looked better again and Marc Albrighton was one of the only ones who really tried to put a shift in.

The rest were just 'meh' - I don't want this football club to settle for 'meh'.

[SashasGrandad]

I think people are very quick to forget that football today is not the same as 10 years ago. The difference in spend is not a few million here and there now, it is hundreds of millions of pounds. Spurs can afford it through massive ticket prices, London location and huge backers that are richer than Lerner. We can't. They put out a side tonight, their reserve side, that would probably be better than our first team all season. It is not being defeatest either, it is acknowledging that the playing field is so far tipped towards the money sides now, that those without have to plan differently.

Lambert is building. He has been in the job 15 months? If we are playing like this in 5 years I will be worried, but seriously, the reason Everton are in a good state for Martinez to build if because they gave Moyes 10 years despite finishing bottom 5 a couple of times. Swansea are an impressive side because they have stuck to a particular philosophy and approach over a long period of time.

Our next step is to spend say 30 million of the TV money on 3 players not 10. This will elevate the rest of the players and improve us no-end. At the moment we only have 3-4 class players and the rest are work men. We need more quality, but Lambert started pretty much from scratch and we need to give him 4-5 years IMO to sort it.

Hear hear

You're bang on with your assessment there Ozzjim.

I'll second (or third) that sentiment.

First half you could see what Lambert was trying to do - frustrate Spuds - which almost worked. El Ahamadi played quite well - but found Sandro difficult to beat. Kozak was all on his own but did quite well. Defence was reasonably comfortable. The 5 in midfield did keep Spurs at bay for most of the half.

Once they scored at end of first half it appears the towel was thrown in. Kozak and El Ahamadi taken off to save them for the weekend. Helenius - needs to improve his first touch which at times is woeful. Bowery - I'm sorry but if you sent him back to Shrewsbury he wouldn't get in their first team either.

Plus points. Albrighton looked OK at times - but he is at best a Championship player - and would do well at that level - maybe another Peter Whittingham type - who would achieve success with a decent team. Tonev at least got 1 decent shot on target and had a couple of decent runs. Bacuna looks to be settling in. Steer made a few good saves first half. Sylla looks fairly solid and needs more time on the pitch.

What we are lacking - somebody to dominate midfield. Spurs had Sandro who I thought was MoM.