Darren Bent joins Fulham on loan (Reply #486)

[john e]

Loved that article, a perfect description of the Darren Bent many of us saw but some couldn't.

151 league goals. In the top flight. Perfect description of Darren Bent.

He hasn't scored a 151 top flight league goals. About a third were in the Championship with Ipswich.

I stand corrected.  128 in the top flight. Obviously he is utter rubbish then.

Bobby Charlton scored 49 times for England, but he wouldn't get a game now,
same for Bent, yes he was a good goal getter, but the player you remember is no longer there

[Slaphead]

Had Bent come up 10 years earlier his record would have been even better. Very similar to Wrighty and a young Andy Cole. He's reliant on his service.
In the last five years the Prem has had a shift. It started moving that way before then but it's become more so of late, that the old school poacher is becoming a thing of the past. Teams favour a big man, or a more all round forward who can get involved in the game.

What also hasn't helped Bent in the last two years has been injuries. They've ruined him because he now doesn't have the pace to play on the shoulder of the last defender. That was a big part of his game and that's gone now. All he has is the danger he poses in and around the 6 yard box. If you don't get him the service, he's buggered. The thing with Bent I guess is, he could touch the ball maybe 200 times a season but still get you 20 goals. The problem is what about all those minutes in games where you're playing with 10 men essentially? What about the points you drop if he misses a chance or never gets it. Or all the times his lack of presence contributes to how effectively the opposition attack. If he scores one but you still lose the game then it's all for naught. Occasionally Bent would also score and that would be him done for the game. He'd go from ambling to reclined on a deck chair, sipping a pina colada. That happened in McLeish's season, also we saw that against Wigan last day last season.

Lambert identified this pretty quickly and dealt with it with real strength of will. To just leave out the clubs record signing took balls.

Well said.  This should be copied and pasted everytime the Bent debate rears it's ugly head.  I think it sums up his pros and cons brilliantly.

Spot on

[Ron Manager]

Bobby Charlton wouldnt get a game now?  Quite right. Neither would Jimmy Greaves, Tom Finney, Gerry Hitchens or for that matter Andy Gray or Brian Little.

They all played in a different era but if they were playing today with modern training methods and diet all of them would be performing at the top level.

Especially Bobby Charlton!

[Pete]

Bobby Charlton wouldnt get a game now?  Quite right. Neither would Jimmy Greaves, Tom Finney, Gerry Hitchens or for that matter Andy Gray or Brian Little.

They all played in a different era but if they were playing today with modern training methods and diet all of them would be performing at the top level.

Especially Bobby Charlton!

I thought John meant he wouldn't get a game because  he was too old, not because he was from a different era. I could be wrong though.

[Ron Manager]

Well he is 76!  I think John is saying players of that type wouldnt get a game nowadays because they didnt work hard enough.

Just scored goals!

[brontebilly]

Had Bent come up 10 years earlier his record would have been even better. Very similar to Wrighty and a young Andy Cole. He's reliant on his service.
In the last five years the Prem has had a shift. It started moving that way before then but it's become more so of late, that the old school poacher is becoming a thing of the past. Teams favour a big man, or a more all round forward who can get involved in the game.

What also hasn't helped Bent in the last two years has been injuries. They've ruined him because he now doesn't have the pace to play on the shoulder of the last defender. That was a big part of his game and that's gone now. All he has is the danger he poses in and around the 6 yard box. If you don't get him the service, he's buggered. The thing with Bent I guess is, he could touch the ball maybe 200 times a season but still get you 20 goals. The problem is what about all those minutes in games where you're playing with 10 men essentially? What about the points you drop if he misses a chance or never gets it. Or all the times his lack of presence contributes to how effectively the opposition attack. If he scores one but you still lose the game then it's all for naught. Occasionally Bent would also score and that would be him done for the game. He'd go from ambling to reclined on a deck chair, sipping a pina colada. That happened in McLeish's season, also we saw that against Wigan last day last season.

Lambert identified this pretty quickly and dealt with it with real strength of will. To just leave out the clubs record signing took balls.

true enough, Ive been critical of Lambert but getting rid of Bent was a massive statement.

Saw Bent play recently for Fulham (cant remember the opposition), got in a couple of great positions but missed the chances. Injuries have robbed him of mobility bit like JPA.

Was some player for a short while when Young and Downing were playing. Some brilliant goals and his movement was superb. Was going on to be England's main striker at the Euros before injury struck. How quickly your luck can change.

Sunderland have done well out of it.

[Dante Lavelli]

Sunderland have done well out of it.

So have we to be fair.  He pretty much kept us up when Hoillier was in charge. 
On that basis I'll never have a axe to grind with Bent.  Unfortunately he face no longer fits.

[PeterWithesShin]

Loved that article, a perfect description of the Darren Bent many of us saw but some couldn't.

151 league goals. In the top flight. Perfect description of Darren Bent.

He hasn't scored a 151 top flight league goals. About a third were in the Championship with Ipswich.

I stand corrected.  128 in the top flight. Obviously he is utter rubbish then.

He scored 47 of his league goals in the Championship. So it's not 128 either

[Ron Manager]

I stand further corrected. I think,however, you would agree that as Darren Bent has scored over 100 goals in the top flight and saved us from relegation he should be afforded more credit than he sometimes gets on this forum.

[eastie]

I see berbatov has already requested to leave the sinking ship - tough times at the cottage.

[johnc]

Well he is 76!  I think John is saying players of that type wouldnt get a game nowadays because they didnt work hard enough.

Just scored goals!

Someone for the young lads to look up to though.

[KevinGage]

Whilst looking at the above Berbatov story (I knew it would be on Sky)  I found this from last year.

David Ginola talks Aston Villa and French football on Goals on Sunday sofa



David Ginola told Goals on Sunday that Aston Villa can move forward if they keep faith with Paul Lambert.

Lambert took charge at Villa Park over the summer after a highly successful stint at Norwich, but the Scot's new charges are hovering just above the relegation zone this term having won just three of their first 15 games.

However, former Villa winger Ginola believes the Claret and Blues can climb the table if Lambert is given time to stamp his authority on the club, something the Midlanders' previous two managers, Gerard Houllier and Alex McLeish, were unable to do during their season-long spells at the helm.

"Aston Villa is a huge club and they should be doing a lot better so the fans are frustrated and have been for many years now," said the Frenchman, who joined Villa from Tottenham in 2000.

"But the manager is doing a good job and it looks like they are going to have him for the next two or three years, something that is important if you want to get results.



"Players need to work with the same manager week in, week out so that they understand the message, as if you change managers every year, the players won't understand and they might have to work with different languages and theories."

Ginola was restricted to just 32 league appearances during his near two-year stay at Villa and revealed that he didn't always see eye-to-eye with then manager John Gregory.

"When you reach your mid-30s you need to count on the manager to understand you as you are not the same kind of person as you were when you were 25," said Ginola.

"When I played for Villa I wasn't able to play my best and it was frustrating for me, so I want to say sorry to the fans."

"I wanted him to understand my stature and know that I didn't want to run on a Tuesday morning like I did when I was 20 and that I needed to rest sometimes to give my best on the Saturday, which is what I was bought for.

"When I played for Villa I wasn't able to play my best and it was frustrating for me, so I want to say sorry to the Villa fans because I wanted to give so much more than I did."

Struggle

Ginola won the French league title in 1994 whilst at Paris-Saint Germain, a club now bankrolled by hugely wealthy Qataris.

The men from the French capital are currently sitting third in Ligue 1 but Ginola says the pressure is on them to take top spot, while the ex-winger also explained why Joey Barton is probably enjoying his loan period at Marseille.

"Most people expected Paris Saint-Germain to be at the top and dominate considering the players they have got, like Zlatan Ibrahimovic, but smaller teams are coming in and knocking on the door," said Ginola.

"I thought Paris would struggle this year because for teams like Nice and Bastia playing PSG is their game of the season - but if PSG don't finish first there will be a problem."

Ginola concluded: "Marseille is probably the club where you can find the same kind of passion from the supporters that you get in England - though it is sometimes too much and they go a bit over the top with their reactions when the team is struggling."

Some unexpectedly kind words there from the Housewife's Favourite.

Although past his best when he joined us, I don't think he was a complete disaster as a signing.

In the final third he was able to provide that bit of quality to win a match, either scoring himself or setting others up.  Bradford, West Ham and Man Citeh at home stand out, West Ham away he played well too, IIRC.   

Any fault on that move lies with Gregory.   No point signing a player like that and asking him to track back -something he never did throughout his career.

[supertom]

There was some suggestion at the time that Ginola was an Ellis signing. Whether that's true I don't know, but I'm not sure JG ever really took to him. I think perhaps Doug thought that Daveed could be the marquee signing the fans were crying out for around that time, but sadly he was 33 and the legs had gone. We still saw brief glimpses but it was a shame we didn't see more from Ginola. In his pomp at Spurs he was an absolute delight to watch play. Very classy player on his day.

As for Bent again. I think in the end he's just about proved his worth for us. He kept us up in Houlliers season. I also think the goals he scored in the first half of the McLeish season, played a big part in us scraping by in the end. He played half a season and was still our top scorer. I've no beef with Benty, but his time has past. In a year or two he'll probably be playing in the Championship. I think one of the strugglers or promoted sides next season will take a punt on him, but the more his legs go, the more the second tier will beckon.

[Concrete John]

I'm fully convinced Ginola was an Ellis signing.

The thing about the whole Bent debate that often gets overlooked is just how good Benteke was last season.  If you played Bent he may have scored the same goals, but given nowhere near the all round contribution.  So, for a manager it's a pretty easy decision who to pick.

After that, who have a saleable assett on your books costing you money for very little contribution.  There are very few clubs that could afford to keep a sub around earning what Bent does.     

[KevinGage]

I guess the one thing the signing of Ginola  (and Hadji and Kachloul to a lesser extent) did do was highlight that if the managers tactics at the time are limited, that one flair player (or three) doesn't alter the pattern of play all that much.

It's often been said on here that we need a No.10  - and we probably do.  But ultimately how much difference would he make if the current crop can't read his runs, or aren't intelligent enough to read where the ball will drop.

Tactics and a defined pattern of play that the whole team can buy into is how you create,  and how you beak down the opposition.  It's too much for one player on his own to carry the burden.