Darren Bent joins Fulham on loan (Reply #486)

[Brend'Watkins]

I do see Lambert's reasoning that he wants to cultivate a tightly knit squad, with everyone pulling in the same direction. From that perspective, I could see why you would want Stephen Ireland out of the set up.

But as far as I can tell, both Given and Bent have been consummate professionals over the last year. They may not be part of our plans, but surely having them involved in training with our youngsters would only aid their development. In Bent's case, he is one of the supreme finishers in the Premier League. As good as Benteke has been, he still has a lot to learn and training alongside Bent would be a decent start. Not to mention the other younger players.
Also, surely Jed Steer would get a hell of a lot out of training with Given, one of the greatest keepers in the Prem League era. With the contract he is on, he clearly hasn't got a future with us, but why not get something out of the wages we are paying him.

From a selling point of view, it doesn't do us any favours ostracising these two, but also I feel both players are being unnecessarily humiliated.

I agree with you mate, i feel its unjust to treat Given and Bent the way they have been, but i think PL just wants to clear the decks asap and the club as a whole wants to reduce the wage bill and the three of those guys are on massive wages, which could be used in other areas of the club..

It may appear unjust on the face of it.  However, there's little point in putting effort and time into team members who will not be part of the future.  They've been told as much, they know the score, moving on suits all parties.

[eastie]

Moving on suits all parties only if there is a buyer - if given and bent are still training in the sticks and Guzan and benteke are both injured then  we would have to rely on unproven young lads to replace them while having 2 experienced internationals twiddling their thumbs.

If we are going down this route we simply must find a buyer and knowing both players have been discarded weakens our position as the selling club.

Clubs may wait until deadline day and offer a pittance.

[Villain1874]

I do see Lambert's reasoning that he wants to cultivate a tightly knit squad, with everyone pulling in the same direction. From that perspective, I could see why you would want Stephen Ireland out of the set up.

But as far as I can tell, both Given and Bent have been consummate professionals over the last year. They may not be part of our plans, but surely having them involved in training with our youngsters would only aid their development. In Bent's case, he is one of the supreme finishers in the Premier League. As good as Benteke has been, he still has a lot to learn and training alongside Bent would be a decent start. Not to mention the other younger players.
Also, surely Jed Steer would get a hell of a lot out of training with Given, one of the greatest keepers in the Prem League era. With the contract he is on, he clearly hasn't got a future with us, but why not get something out of the wages we are paying him.

From a selling point of view, it doesn't do us any favours ostracising these two, but also I feel both players are being unnecessarily humiliated.

I agree with you mate, i feel its unjust to treat Given and Bent the way they have been, but i think PL just wants to clear the decks asap and the club as a whole wants to reduce the wage bill and the three of those guys are on massive wages, which could be used in other areas of the club..

It may appear unjust on the face of it.  However, there's little point in putting effort and time into team members who will not be part of the future.  They've been told as much, they know the score, moving on suits all parties.

Why i do agree with you there's little point putting effort and time into team members who will not be part of the future, i feel PL could have gone a slightly different way about it, both Bent and Given have acted professional during their time at the club and deserve to be treated with the same manner they have shown us...
I don't think it would have harmed the team in anyway if those two guys were taken on pre-season games...

Edit: They should be training with the first team also....
   

[Toronto Villa]

I don't see how they are being humiliated. They have been told that the club is moving forward without them and that the coaching and tactics will be very specific to how we want to play. If you incorporate Bent during a session then you have to fit his style. Lambert isn't going to do that. Helenius makes way more sense in that regard. All that has happened is that these players have been told to stay sharp and in shape. They have been told to find another club and from the club's position it forces their hand unless they want this to be their future. I'm also sure that everything the club is doing is within any agreement they would have with the PFA, so unless you're willing to believe everything you read, they are not being humiliated at all. And at 50-60 grand a week, or whatever Bent/Ireland/Given I don't really feel sorry for them even if they are a little embarassed.

[pauliewalnuts]

I don't see how they are being humiliated. They have been told that the club is moving forward without them and that the coaching and tactics will be very specific to how we want to play. If you incorporate Bent during a session then you have to fit his style. Lambert isn't going to do that. Helenius makes way more sense in that regard. All that has happened is that these players have been told to stay sharp and in shape. They have been told to find another club and from the club's position it forces their hand unless they want this to be their future. I'm also sure that everything the club is doing is within any agreement they would have with the PFA, so unless you're willing to believe everything you read, they are not being humiliated at all. And at 50-60 grand a week, or whatever Bent/Ireland/Given I don't really feel sorry for them even if they are a little embarassed.

I see what you mean, and understand your argument, but how does our change in tactics mean that, say, Given can't be training with the first team squad?

I don't know under what circumstances he has done this. It does strike me as harsh, though, that someone like Bent gets told to train with the kids.

Apart from anything else, we might also need to use these players if we don't shift them. What if Guzan gets injured? How up to it is Given going to be having trained with the teenagers?

If we fail to sell any of these players, then I'd rather they trained with the first team and were thus of decent shape and mind if they were called on during the season.

I understand there are millions of other people who are deserving of more sympathy than pampered professional footballers, but I don't really agree with the dumping of seasoned professionals like Bent and Given with the kids.

These are players who have played god knows how many matches for their countries, and who haven't acted like arseholes whilst here. They don't deserve to be treated like this.

[pauliewalnuts]

One other argument is that anyone thinking of bidding is now going to be aware how desperate we are to shift them - letting it be known they're training with the kids doesn't strike me as that sensible a way to get as much as we can for players we want to move on.

[eastie]

I'm guessing if they are still here come deadline day that lambert will not name them in his 25 man squad?

We seem so eager to sell that the buying clubs will hammer down the price knowing how much we want to offload .

[Toronto Villa]

One other argument is that anyone thinking of bidding is now going to be aware how desperate we are to shift them - letting it be known they're training with the kids doesn't strike me as that sensible a way to get as much as we can for players we want to move on.

We are desperate to shift them, and as I suggested a while back, the club will do anything to move them on. They will make the players that are surplus to requirements as attractive as possible to any potential club, and clearly they are sending a message to those players that they need to move on. It might seem harsh but it's business. Just as we have lost players who suddenly lost their emotional attachment to us when a bigger club comes knocking, the club are saying they want them gone. Thanks, it's been good, but you need to find a new home.

Yes, off course your point on Given is valid in terms of training as opposed to an outfield player, but it's just the consistency of the message to all those deemed as surplus.

[Salsa Party Animal]

I think Given should be kept as no 2 until there is departure as we won't know what will happens in football what if Brad Guzan broke his shoulder in an challenge to catch a cross and be out for 3 months. We need Given to be ready to step up rather than hope the two young goalkeepers to step in. Football is a cruel game.

[eastie]

I think Given should be kept as no 2 until there is departure as we won't know what will happens in football what if Brad Guzan broke his shoulder in an challenge to catch a cross and be out for 3 months. We need Given to be ready to step up rather than hope the two young goalkeepers to step in. Football is a cruel game.

Indeed it is Michael, indeed it is

[LeeS]

It reminds me of an employee being sent on gardening leave once he has been told he isnt needed anymore or hands in his notice. Its not humiliating, it is an obvious business requirement. You cant have people in the team who have one foot out of the door. Pre-season is too important for that and I'm sure Bent and Given have been told man to man by Lambert rather than somehow snubbed.

[Villain1874]

I think Given should be kept as no 2 until there is departure as we won't know what will happens in football what if Brad Guzan broke his shoulder in an challenge to catch a cross and be out for 3 months. We need Given to be ready to step up rather than hope the two young goalkeepers to step in. Football is a cruel game.

To be honest what i would like to happen is to renegotiate Givens contract to a player/goalkeeper coach for two years on lower wages and keep him as back up, and after he's retired from playing offer him a full time coaching role...
He gives the impression he would make a good coach, just not sure if PL would go for that or Given for that matter...
Just a thought lol...

[Percy McCarthy]

No to a coaching role for Given. A lkine goalkeeper is okay if you do zonal coverage. When you don't you need the keeper to come for crosses. How would Given coach that?

[London Villan]

The difference with gardening leave is that there is a defined time limit of when they will go. This little crew haven't got that. We might also need Bent or Given at some point.

There must be some serious wages though in those four players... £200k a week easy...

[Merv]

My latest blog post for ESPN echoed some of the sentiment on here about this. While I totally understand the footballing reasons behind excluding Bent from the senior squad from this point on (was not aware Given was in the same position when I wrote it last night), it's still, in my opinion, a real shame that this is the way this is how his career with us ends. Bent did for us exactly what he was signed to do, and I haven't read anything at all to suggest he's been a disruptive or negative influence. While we no longer need him as a player, and have moved on without him, it's disappointing it's all come to this/

I hope his transfer away is finalised fairly swiftly and this doesn't drag on, or it could get rather ugly.