Which Players are Good Enough for 'The Next Level'?

[paul_e]

The biggest problem with the defence this season is that we've had 6 defenders who appeared regularly, who, before the start of the season, had about 50 premier league appearances between them.

We simply needed Dunne to get fit but he seemingly is broken as a footballer and will probably never play at a high level again.  To have broken down so many times in a year is hugely worrying.  I don't particularly like Dunne, I think his concentration and fitness are very poor for an international defender but he does bring some stability to proceedings that has been sorely missed.

[PaulWinch again]

Frankly our celtic connection of Given, Dunne, Hutton and Ireland have offered absolutely nothing of us.

[Surrey Villain]

Our defensive line is too high, that's clear. Saunders' I find it hard to understand how you can think that Westwood isn't good enough for the Premier League, he's been good this year in his first year at this level.

He's never stood out in any game for me. I don't see why so many fans on here have him down as being so special. The only young player who has done anything of note this season is Weimann, and even he has been poor for the last month or two. I've said it before, for me this is the worst Villa team I've ever seen, and most of the players aren't fit to wear a Villa shirt, Westwood included.

I fully agree with you S-H.  I have come away from pretty well every game wondering how much longer Lambert can keep playing Westwood. He offers very little constructively and for me (and I know I will get heavy gunfire for this) Bannan contributes more overall when you excuse his sometimes wayward passing borne out I believe by trying too hard.  Westwood's 'completion' figures are mainly from get rid of the ball ASAP.  I think we have a situation rather like under MON where he plays players he bought no matter how bad they are so he regularly praises them to try to kid us they are good. We have had to put up with 'promising' League 1 and 2 players while international players have been sidelined. 
Another problem is Lambert will not play with wingers so his fullbacks have to play wingback and strikers like Gabby and Weimann have to play wide.

[saunders_heroes]

Frankly our celtic connection of Given, Dunne, Hutton and Ireland have offered absolutely nothing of us.

True. You can't blame them for this season's debacle though.

[Mister E]

Our defensive line is too high, that's clear. Saunders' I find it hard to understand how you can think that Westwood isn't good enough for the Premier League, he's been good this year in his first year at this level.

He's never stood out in any game for me. I don't see why so many fans on here have him down as being so special. The only young player who has done anything of note this season is Weimann, and even he has been poor for the last month or two. I've said it before, for me this is the worst Villa team I've ever seen, and most of the players aren't fit to wear a Villa shirt, Westwood included.

I fully agree with you S-H.  I have come away from pretty well every game wondering how much longer Lambert can keep playing Westwood. He offers very little constructively and for me (and I know I will get heavy gunfire for this) Bannan contributes more overall when you excuse his sometimes wayward passing borne out I believe by trying too hard.  Westwood's 'completion' figures are mainly from get rid of the ball ASAP.  I think we have a situation rather like under MON where he plays players he bought no matter how bad they are so he regularly praises them to try to kid us they are good. We have had to put up with 'promising' League 1 and 2 players while international players have been sidelined. 
Another problem is Lambert will not play with wingers so his fullbacks have to play wingback and strikers like Gabby and Weimann have to play wide.

The thing is, this is exactly what many people were saying about Petrov (and have also said about players like Carrick).
These are the players that do loads of unheralded work - interceptions, re-cycling the ball, maintaining the momentum, covering for attacking colleagues, making the dummy runs.
Not glamorous but often critical.

Westwood will get better and better, I think.

[saunders_heroes]

Our defensive line is too high, that's clear. Saunders' I find it hard to understand how you can think that Westwood isn't good enough for the Premier League, he's been good this year in his first year at this level.

He's never stood out in any game for me. I don't see why so many fans on here have him down as being so special. The only young player who has done anything of note this season is Weimann, and even he has been poor for the last month or two. I've said it before, for me this is the worst Villa team I've ever seen, and most of the players aren't fit to wear a Villa shirt, Westwood included.

I fully agree with you S-H.  I have come away from pretty well every game wondering how much longer Lambert can keep playing Westwood. He offers very little constructively and for me (and I know I will get heavy gunfire for this) Bannan contributes more overall when you excuse his sometimes wayward passing borne out I believe by trying too hard.  Westwood's 'completion' figures are mainly from get rid of the ball ASAP.  I think we have a situation rather like under MON where he plays players he bought no matter how bad they are so he regularly praises them to try to kid us they are good. We have had to put up with 'promising' League 1 and 2 players while international players have been sidelined. 
Another problem is Lambert will not play with wingers so his fullbacks have to play wingback and strikers like Gabby and Weimann have to play wide.

The thing is, this is exactly what many people were saying about Petrov (and have also said about players like Carrick).
These are the players that do loads of unheralded work - interceptions, re-cycling the ball, maintaining the momentum, covering for attacking colleagues, making the dummy runs.
Not glamorous but often critical.

Westwood will get better and better, I think.

Westwood isn't and never will be fit to lace the boots of Petrov.

[eastie]

Westwood will go on to become a very good premiership player with a top 4 club in time - hopefully it will be with us and he will be here for a few years.

[pauliewalnuts]

Westwood has a pass completion rate of almost 85% over the season.

If you can't see how that contributes, then there's no hope for you.

Obviously, if you've decided that everything is shit, then there's no persuading you.

[saunders_heroes]

Westwood has a pass completion rate of almost 85% over the season.

If you can't see how that contributes, then there's no hope for you.

Obviously, if you've decided that everything is shit, then there's no persuading you.

Look don't throw stats at me. They can be manipulated to make the average of players look good. Bannan's pass completion etc stats look good, but most of those passes are sideways and backwards or in his own half where they hurt no one. The same applies to Westwood in my opinion.
Not good enough for Aston Villa. That's why we've been relegation fodder all season.

[Surrey Villain]

Westwood has a pass completion rate of almost 85% over the season.

If you can't see how that contributes, then there's no hope for you.

Obviously, if you've decided that everything is shit, then there's no persuading you.

Look don't throw stats at me. They can be manipulated to make the average of players look good. Bannan's pass completion etc stats look good, but most of those passes are sideways and backwards or in his own half where they hurt no one. The same applies to Westwood in my opinion.
Not good enough for Aston Villa. That's why we've been relegation fodder all season.

As I said, most of Westwood's passes are short 'get rid of it quick' balls.  I truly hope he does become a great player but we need that now.

[pauliewalnuts]

Westwood has a pass completion rate of almost 85% over the season.

If you can't see how that contributes, then there's no hope for you.

Obviously, if you've decided that everything is shit, then there's no persuading you.

Look don't throw stats at me. They can be manipulated to make the average of players look good. Bannan's pass completion etc stats look good, but most of those passes are sideways and backwards or in his own half where they hurt no one. The same applies to Westwood in my opinion.
Not good enough for Aston Villa. That's why we've been relegation fodder all season.

Westwood's pass completion rates are good, and he actually looks like a good passer of the ball in the flesh, so it isn't just stats.

Our problem is not that all the young players are rubbish. They clearly are not rubbish. Some of them look very good. Some less so.

The problem is that way, way too often, they've all been thrown in at the same time rather than slowly introduced. Over the course of the season they've also had to handle some truly horrific results, and a near total lack of experienced heads to turn to in the changing rooms when looking for leadership.

Some of those young players aren't good enough, some of them might be, and some of them clearly are. The problem is that they've spent most of this season getting utterly crucified on the pitch, so it is very hard to judge them.

[Concrete John]

Westwood has a pass completion rate of almost 85% over the season.

If you can't see how that contributes, then there's no hope for you.

Obviously, if you've decided that everything is shit, then there's no persuading you.

Look don't throw stats at me. They can be manipulated to make the average of players look good. Bannan's pass completion etc stats look good, but most of those passes are sideways and backwards or in his own half where they hurt no one. The same applies to Westwood in my opinion.
Not good enough for Aston Villa. That's why we've been relegation fodder all season.

As I said, most of Westwood's passes are short 'get rid of it quick' balls.  I truly hope he does become a great player but we need that now.

While he doesn;t play too many defence splitters, that's simply not true.

[pauliewalnuts]

The biggest problem with the defence this season is that we've had 6 defenders who appeared regularly, who, before the start of the season, had about 50 premier league appearances between them.

We simply needed Dunne to get fit but he seemingly is broken as a footballer and will probably never play at a high level again.  To have broken down so many times in a year is hugely worrying.  I don't particularly like Dunne, I think his concentration and fitness are very poor for an international defender but he does bring some stability to proceedings that has been sorely missed.

I am sure I remember us starting one match and our most experienced PL player in the starting XI was Barry Bannan, with 50 odd appearances.

If you play a side that inexperienced for any length of time in the top flight, you are going to struggle.

I agree on Dunne, too. He is a terrible pro in many ways, constantly fat and out of shape, and prone to clangers and own goals, but he's at least been round the block a few times. We've had matches with Baker and Clark in the middle, and either one of those alongside a more experienced player would have been significantly better than pairing both of them together.

[onje_villa]

As usual, Paulie has it spot on and I just cannot understand anyone who thinks Westwood hasn't done well this season. It's clear he has quality in the middle. He's no world beater yet but if he improves as he should he'll be a very good player.

I'm still holding out a fair amount of hope for Vlaar and KEA. Definite similarities with Stan (who was poor for a long time) and who has been our stand out player in the last few years. Looking back it's surprising we stuck with him for so long but obviously delighted we did!

[tomd2103]

Frankly our celtic connection of Given, Dunne, Hutton and Ireland have offered absolutely nothing of us.

True. You can't blame them for this season's debacle though.

On the contrary, I think Ireland has to shoulder some of the blame. He could have been an integral part of the side this season, but he just couldn't be bothered.  If (and it is a big if) Dunne hasn't really made an effort to get himself fit then he is another one who has cost us in his absence.