Ellis and Charidee

[saunders_heroes]

Probably because I could see how bad this team was right from the off! Do you really think a life long Villa fan like me enjoys criticising the club as much as I've done this last 18 months?

Isn't the view you posted re Ellis influenced by a desire to hit back at Lerner? I sometimes feel like that myself, in my moments of greatest anger with him.

Let's be entirely honest, though, Lerner has been here six years, and has spent loads of money getting a team which broke the top six into three relegation scraps.

Doug spent none of his own money getting the European Champions into the second division within five years. This is an achievement which goes down in the annals of English football.

I'm angry with Lerner that's for sure. Remember how excited we all were when he took over, and now look at us. Ellis has gone, he's history. You can't just cherry pick the Ellis era for the bad bits because it wasn't all that bad.

[pauliewalnuts]

Probably because I could see how bad this team was right from the off! Do you really think a life long Villa fan like me enjoys criticising the club as much as I've done this last 18 months?

Isn't the view you posted re Ellis influenced by a desire to hit back at Lerner? I sometimes feel like that myself, in my moments of greatest anger with him.

Let's be entirely honest, though, Lerner has been here six years, and has spent loads of money getting a team which broke the top six into three relegation scraps.

Doug spent none of his own money getting the European Champions into the second division within five years. This is an achievement which goes down in the annals of English football.

I'm angry with Lerner that's for sure. Remember how excited we all were when he took over, and now look at us. Ellis has gone, he's history. You can't just cherry pick the Ellis era for the bad bits because it wasn't all that bad.

So am I. As posted elsewhere, lots of times, I am annoyed at Lerner for a lot of things.

And no, it's also not fair to say everything about the Ellis era was bad, but ultimately, if you're going to give Lerner stick for pushing us close to relegation, and then start making comparisons to Ellis, he got us actual relegation.

That period from the early 70s to the late 80s must be the most rollercoaster period for pretty much any club.

Third division to League and European Champions in just over a decade, and then back to Division 2 in five years.

I am one of those people who'll go on about what a great time we had at some of those grounds in the 87-8 second division year, but let's be entirely honest, being out of the top flight is fucking rubbish.

The fact that Ellis got us there that quickly was pretty remarkable.

Lerner's problems are failings are pretty easy to spot, but what you can't deny is that he's put a lot of money in. I disagree entirely with the speed with which he has got us cutting back now, as it risks our top flight status, but he did put the money there.

If you're looking at it on a financial level , Doug never put a penny of his own money in.

[Dave Cooper please]

I've read your post and it seems to be arguing with people's reasons for posting rather than the substance of what is being said.

Not entirely sure that's right but I'm beyond arguing! I was just saying that slagging Ellis off for telling the world he gives money to charities is rather counter-productive, surely any publicity is good yes?

[saunders_heroes]

I went to nearly every away game in 87/88 and even though it was a laugh I just couldn't wait to get back to division 1 because it was shit being a second tier club. I remember the feeling of dread after we were relegated. It was horrible. That's probably why I'm so hard on Lerner because I just don't want to see it happen again. I'm also hard on him because this wasn't the dream we were sold when he took over, and I'm angry at all the cost cutting over the last 3 years. The poor signings dressed up as "young and hungry" players. He must think we're all mad to fall for that one.
Keep us in the PL this season and he's got away with it, but anymore cost cutting and it'll be just a matter of time till we're relegated.

[Chris Smith]

I've read your post and it seems to be arguing with people's reasons for posting rather than the substance of what is being said.

Not entirely sure that's right but I'm beyond arguing! I was just saying that slagging Ellis off for telling the world he gives money to charities is rather counter-productive, surely any publicity is good yes?

I don't think the meat producers selling meals with horse in them would agree with you!

On a serious level, I doubt it makes any significant difference. In reality who is really likely to be encouraged to give because Ellis did? Blues fans?

[Lastfootstamper]

I just don't get why every time ellis crops up in a thread, as soon as somebody has a pop at him they get labelled as a Randy-worshipper. Ellis was responsible for the worst managerial appointment in our history in McNeill, then fell on his feet insofaras four of the five that followed would've crawled over broken glass to get the job. Were it not for the promise of tv money, our famous ground would remain a crumbling monument to its former glories. As for Mr Lerner, affable as he may seem, it would appear he could've done with inheriting business acumen along with his fortune. But they are not alone. The stewardship of our club during the majority of the last eighty years would dismay those that grew it from its origins.

Giving money to charity? Surely we all should when we can. Gets you in the paper? Whoop-di-do.

[dave.woodhall]

I just don't get why every time ellis crops up in a thread, as soon as somebody has a pop at him they get labelled as a Randy-worshipper. Ellis was responsible for the worst managerial appointment in our history in McNeill, then fell on his feet insofaras four of the five that followed would've crawled over broken glass to get the job. Were it not for the promise of tv money, our famous ground would remain a crumbling monument to its former glories. As for Mr Lerner, affable as he may seem, it would appear he could've done with inheriting business acumen along with his fortune. But they are not alone. The stewardship of our club during the majority of the last eighty years would dismay those that grew it from its origins.

Giving money to charity? Surely we all should when we can. Gets you in the paper? Whoop-di-do.

You've touched on two of the reasons there why Doug was lucky. Whenever he was in the shit he always managed to find a manager who was in the right place at the right time. Sir Graham wanted a job that summer and we were the biggest going, plus his mate worked literally round the corner, BFR had his 'now or never' moment with the Villa job in 1991 and Brian was always going to be Villa manager one day. The other reason was that with the Premier League's increasing world domination, TV money and the Stock Exchange's brief love affair with football, the nineties were a time when more money than ever came in to the game and all the top clubs had to do was hold their hands out for it. Of course some went out to grab as much as they could while others sat back content with what they were given, but that's another story.

[Rip Van We Go Again]

Randy or Lerner?

How do we refer to him?

Never met or had dealings with him so I prefer Lerner.

[eastie]

There will always be people with resentment towards doug and they have good reason but I think its worth noting he made mistakes and did some very bad things and also some very good things- he wasnt all bad.

Also people saying he took over the European champions and were relegated within 5 years - it's also worth noting that the team who won the European cup had finished 11th in the league that year - so it could equally be said he took over a team that had just finished 11th and they were relegated within 5 years

The treatment of tony Barton was unacceptable and he made other serious mistakes but i do hope in the passing of time that when doug is no longer with us people let bygones be bygones .

I fully understand the reasons some dislike him greatly but Ilike I say he was a mixture  of good and bad and i still respect him.

[damon loves JT]

The failings of Villa under Ellis are the same failings manifested by the city of Birmingham. Complacency about its position; a lack of ambition; a failure to realise its strength.

Manchester isn't half the city that Birmingham could be, but it values its heritage, sets its sights high and makes te most of what it has.

[damon loves JT]

And FFS eastie, he's not dead yet. It's a bit premature to be talking about how we should respond to his minute's silence.

[dicedlam]

It's Doug all over. No, he didn't have to give it and no, he didn't have to make it public but that's what his generation do, or rather did - "Put something back" and in return get your photo in the papers handing over an oversized cheque, usually while wearing a dinner jacket and oversized bow tie (preferably velvet). Donate a bit more and get the building of your choice named after you.

The old bastard never donated fuck all to us but still got his name on a building.
The quote made by SGT  'There are fundamental problems at Aston Villa, a club run by Doug Ellis, for Doug Ellis and on behalf of Doug Ellis'. could not ring with more truth.

As for the minutes silence eastie....will I fuck.

[LeeB]

"I do a lot of work for charidee, but I don't like to pay tax"

[Mister E]

IMO HDE's 'crime' was one of mediocrity: during the money heaven of the 1990's we failed to exploit the opportunities and settled for mid-table safety (a position, ironically, that we currently crave).

[damon loves JT]

Quite. It was the limit of his ambition. He was always a mediocre, provincial man at heart.