Players out of position

[ROBBO]

Just watched most of the replay against Bradford and couple of things really stood out, one was the difference in Nzogbia having more freedom to move around, he really seemed to want the ball and was one who didn't disappoint. The other was how narrow we played especially down the right, time and again we had the ball fright of midfield but the ball carrier had to either move back infield wait for someone to move out there, it looked so pedestrian. Gabby looked like a player that didn't have a clue as to where he was playing.
Is this part of the problem?

[PaulTheVillan]

We really need our wide men to support our full backs. None of them track back.

[UK Redsox]

Lambert was trying to replicate the Dutch "Total Football" experiment

[nick harper]

I mentioned this on the match thread. Our strikers don't stretch sides by running the channels. This was always one of Gabby's strengths because of his pace but he and Benteke must be told not to do this. As a result, the full backs often have no-one in front and have to turn back inside.

Against Bradford, I am convinced that if we had done this we would have pulled their defensive set up about far more than we did and created more space, particularly as the game wore on.

Thought our tactics were poor on the night as we played as if we were playing another Premier League side.

[fredm]

Our tactics/line up were wrong against Bradford in the first leg, and again in the second leg.  They were bound to play defensively in the second leg and we should have tried to pull their full backs out wide and stretch their defence.  How many times did Lowton have the ball out wide and attempt to make a run?  If Walker had been in that position with that much space in front of him their left back would have been going dizzy.

And then the tactics after they scored -well that has been debated enough. 

This is the one big nagging doubt I have about PL - the way he sets his team up and the tactics he employs.  I think he gets it wrong more often then he gets it right and that is a worry.

[paul_e]

Nick - spot on about the strikers going wide, but it's not just them, the midfield are guilty of it as well, both in defence and attack.  We don't pin their fullbacks wide when we attack and we don't pick them up when they come forward.  All season it's been fullbacks that have caused us problems, when we do close them down it's usually at the expense of leaving their winger or a central midfielder with time and space.

As fredm says, this is my big problem with PL, he doesn't seem to know how to deal with this.  At Norwich they had similar problems at times but they were confident and all wanted to have the ball so they kept possession better, with us giving the ball away so much the problem is being exposed much more frequently.  Add in our complete inability to deal with corners and it adds up to the shocking defensive record we're seeing.

[Mortimer's Bear]

We really need our wide men to support our full backs. None of them track back.

This is massive for me. Bennett gets a lot of stick both on here and at the games (some of which is justified), but he gets no help whatsoever from the midfield and is nearly always played into trouble.

[Oscar Arce]

We need width, simple.
But Lambert does'nt play with width, it's all through the middle.
Crosses into box = Chances + shots at goal = goals.
Simples, I'm a tactical fecking genius.

[paul_e]

You have to have a balance, too much reliance on width and you get what we had with MoN, good on the counter away from home but struggle to break teams down if they defend deep.

The modern game requires you to be good at using the space that's available, regardless of where it is.

Defensively we give teams too much space and going forward we play where we're comfortable not where we should.

[ozzjim]

I feel sorry for Bennett too re support. Playing a flat 4-4-2 with a genuine left and right midfield player tracking and helping, both our fullbacks would look fine. Trouble is the centre of the pitch would look woeful.

As such we pack central, lose that and then are exposed down the sides. Only way out is to play an isolated 4-5-1 but the spar midfielder if NZogbia or Ireland don't drop in so it becomes 4-4-2 by default, and you carry the work of the middle 1.

The answer? God knows. 2 stronger, faster, more athletic and technically sound midfield players.

[rob_bridge]

One of my Bug Bears dating way way back to BFRs days when he used to stick Yorkie out on wing is this.
And the Brian played him in midfield to accommadate Savo and Vitcor.
Any team needs balance, shape as well as players

[eamonn]

It's a real pisser that Lambert doesn't see Clark as a midfielder. If we could take him out of the firing line at centre back where his confidence must be getting lower all the time, his passing and awareness could be really useful to us in the middle of the park.

[tomd2103]

Nick - spot on about the strikers going wide, but it's not just them, the midfield are guilty of it as well, both in defence and attack.  We don't pin their fullbacks wide when we attack and we don't pick them up when they come forward.  All season it's been fullbacks that have caused us problems, when we do close them down it's usually at the expense of leaving their winger or a central midfielder with time and space.

As fredm says, this is my big problem with PL, he doesn't seem to know how to deal with this.  At Norwich they had similar problems at times but they were confident and all wanted to have the ball so they kept possession better, with us giving the ball away so much the problem is being exposed much more frequently.  Add in our complete inability to deal with corners and it adds up to the shocking defensive record we're seeing.

I was sat in top tier of the Trinity Road for the Bradford game and you could clearly see what was needed.  Lowton was pushing on and every time he got the ball there was a huge gap in behind the man who came to close him down.  It was crying for Gabby or N'Zogbia to make a run into the space behind, but neither of them did.  The movement of our forwards when we are in possession is non-existent. 

[Ads]

If you're going to play narrow, then your midfield must be fluid, but more than anything, your full backs must, must, must(!) push on.

[rob_bridge]

I feel sorry for Bennett too re support. Playing a flat 4-4-2 with a genuine left and right midfield player tracking and helping, both our fullbacks would look fine. Trouble is the centre of the pitch would look woeful.

As such we pack central, lose that and then are exposed down the sides. Only way out is to play an isolated 4-5-1 but the spar midfielder if NZogbia or Ireland don't drop in so it becomes 4-4-2 by default, and you carry the work of the middle 1.

The answer? God knows. 2 stronger, faster, more athletic and technically sound midfield players.

Maybe he will when Dunne is back

a mf of Westwood, Clark and say Delph is more solid looking than any involving Bannan or Ireland (who should be sent to Mali in my book)