Why was McLeish sacked?

[Ger Regan]

Lambert is definitely in the bottom 1. Well, as long as we ignore Turner, McNeil, Venglos, O'Leary and McLeish.

I wish there was a hyperbole button so you could switch off the hyperbole poorly masquerading as considered opinion for a while. It's far too Villa Talk for me.

Lambert has been as bad if not worse than most you've mentioned above. Unless you ignore the last 2 seasons that is.

There's been plenty of crap, but there's also been far more positives in his two seasons than in anything McLeish managed to serve up. Sorry, DC5, maybe that's disgraceful treatment of your mate too, but it's the truth.

Yes let's just forget the negatives.

What the hell are you on about?

[bertlambshank]

Fucking hell. 7 (natural) defenders!

He didn't give a fuck by then he knew he was gone.

[bertlambshank]

Lambert is definitely in the bottom 1. Well, as long as we ignore Turner, McNeil, Venglos, O'Leary and McLeish.

I wish there was a hyperbole button so you could switch off the hyperbole poorly masquerading as considered opinion for a while. It's far too Villa Talk for me.

Lambert has been as bad if not worse than most you've mentioned above. Unless you ignore the last 2 seasons that is.

There's been plenty of crap, but there's also been far more positives in his two seasons than in anything McLeish managed to serve up. Sorry, DC5, maybe that's disgraceful treatment of your mate too, but it's the truth.

Yes let's just forget the negatives.

What the hell are you on about?

What positives are you on about?

[Irish villain]

McLeish on Sky Sports tonight. Obviously a football man of long standing. Just a pity he was treated so badly at Villa Park.

He seemed a decent bloke, but he was a dismal failure as a manager at Villa Park however you decide to look at it.

He was treated horrendously by the fans and given no support from Lerner.

Generally treated well until half a dozen games before the end of a season when everyone expected a damp squib of relegation, when everyone got a bit upset by us losing to a shit Bolton side.

At least he was treated well by those who happened to drink at the same Friday night pub as he did.

He did seem to be a pleasant bloke though. Even though he was a shit football manager.

I agree, he seemed a nice bloke, but this "treated horrendously by the fans" thing is utter nonsense, it really is.

He got plenty of support.

The vast majority of us would give him a go once he got the job. The only thing he could have done to make that support evaporate was revert to type and start playing like he had Blues playing, and that's exactly what he did. That is pretty much exactly the time the crowd turned on him.

He actually got longer than the manager before him did. We turned on Houllier much earlier than McLeish.

I've never been as embarased to be a Villa fan as i was at times under him with the way he sent us out. I genuinely couldn't give a flying fuck that he came from Small Heath. Had he been a decent manager rather than a byword for defensive negativity, the fact we'd taken him from them would have been a *bonus* not a stick to beat him with.

He wasn't, though, he was a horribly negative manager who blew his only chance at the big time.

I think to that team he sent out at White Hart Lane and I honestly get more embarrassed than I do when I think back to some of the severe beatings we took in the mid 80s.

The fact that there's only one single person on this forum who feels that McLeish was harshly treated says it all really.

So many things wrong in one post.

You could always try pointing them out rather than just making a quick one-liner then disappearing until the next time the same thing gets discussed.

I entirely appreciate you believe in what you're saying. I just think you should maybe try to win us over by telling us why you think that way.

"You could always try pointing them out rather than just making a quick one-liner then disappearing until the next time the same thing gets discussed."

In fairness, he's  not the only one guilty of that on here over the years.

[Ger Regan]

Well off the top of my head there's chelsea at home this season, liverpool away (twice), arsenal away, sunderland at home last season, some excellent football and brilliant goals scored. I'm not denying the shit that has also gone on, but what I've listed alone is better than anything that mcleish did.

[Monty]

Well off the top of my head there's chelsea at home this season, liverpool away (twice), arsenal away, sunderland at home last season, some excellent football and brilliant goals scored. I'm not denying the shit that has also gone one, but what I've listed alone is better than anything that mcleish did.

There's no arguing with the truth of this.

[dave.woodhall]

In fairness, he's  not the only one guilty of that on here over the years.

I'm sure we all apologise for the level of our debate not being up to the standards you expect.

[bertlambshank]

Well off the top of my head there's chelsea at home this season, liverpool away (twice), arsenal away, sunderland at home last season, some excellent football and brilliant goals scored. I'm not denying the shit that has also gone on, but what I've listed alone is better than anything that mcleish did.

He has done no more than tread water,that is what TSM was asked to do.

[PeterWithesShin]

Well off the top of my head there's chelsea at home this season, liverpool away (twice), arsenal away, sunderland at home last season, some excellent football and brilliant goals scored. I'm not denying the shit that has also gone on, but what I've listed alone is better than anything that mcleish did.

He has done no more than tread water,that is what TSM was asked to do.

For me though the difference is, under McLeish, how many games can you remember for the right reasons? Chavski away, and Norwich maybe Blackburn at home. How many goals do you remember as being 'fuck me' type goals?

Then do the same for Lambert, amongst the dross are games we'll remember for quite a while, and some of the best goals i've seen Villa score.

[Ger Regan]

So they're not positives? Or maybe more specifically, even if he is just treading water, do those not mean he's treading it better than mcleish, which was the point i was making?

[Isa]

I personally never minded McLeish's character. As others have said, he always came across as a decent enough bloke. The apologism employed after bad results did grate a bit and obviously didn't do him any favours. Although at least he still accepted the faults in the performances even if he did attempt to blame everybody but himself for them. Which in some ways is better than honey-glazing blatantly bad performances by describing them as 'excellent' or 'terrific' as the current manager does.

My feelings of McLeish towards the end were more sympathy than anything else I'd say. Ultimately, every man and his dog knew what sort of manager he was and what brand of football he would serve up before he was even hired. He duely didn't disappoint by just approaching his task here the only way he knew how and the way he had throughout his managerial career. I can't blame a leopard for not being able to change it's spots.

Regarding his treatment by the fans, it wasn't anywhere near as bad as made out by some, especially those in the media. There were of course those who were never going to give him a chance and had settled upon that line of thought before his hiring was even annouced. However the vast majority, although extremely underwhelmed and perhaps unable to generate any real optimism towards his reign, still did give him their backing and some time to alter their preexisting conceptions of him. He was unable to do this for most and any hopes that he could lead the club forward and give us something, anything, to reserve some excitement for were (very slowly) strangled out of us as the season lengthened. Despite this, he was only officially turned on after the Bolton defeat which was the forth last game of the season which is proof enough that fans didn't just use the first possible opportunity to do this as some journalists would have us believe.

I write this as somebody who never even called for McLeish to go, mainly down to the sheer lethargy which I had become engulfed in at the time though.

[bertlambshank]

Well off the top of my head there's chelsea at home this season, liverpool away (twice), arsenal away, sunderland at home last season, some excellent football and brilliant goals scored. I'm not denying the shit that has also gone on, but what I've listed alone is better than anything that mcleish did.

He has done no more than tread water,that is what TSM was asked to do.

For me though the difference is, under McLeish, how many games can you remember for the right reasons? Chavski away, and Norwich maybe Blackburn at home. How many goals do you remember as being 'fuck me' type goals?

Then do the same for Lambert, amongst the dross are games we'll remember for quite a while, and some of the best goals i've seen Villa score.

Chelsea away.What was the score again?
It's ok talking about the what he has done well but come on with every positive you have a negative.If he was TSM he would of been long gone.

[PeterWithesShin]

Why do I have to come on? I've said "spectacularly shit at times" and "amongst the dross". I'm hardly ignoring the negatives and lavishing endless praise on Lambert.

[Ger Regan]

Well off the top of my head there's chelsea at home this season, liverpool away (twice), arsenal away, sunderland at home last season, some excellent football and brilliant goals scored. I'm not denying the shit that has also gone on, but what I've listed alone is better than anything that mcleish did.

He has done no more than tread water,that is what TSM was asked to do.

For me though the difference is, under McLeish, how many games can you remember for the right reasons? Chavski away, and Norwich maybe Blackburn at home. How many goals do you remember as being 'fuck me' type goals?

Then do the same for Lambert, amongst the dross are games we'll remember for quite a while, and some of the best goals i've seen Villa score.

Chelsea away.What was the score again?
It's ok talking about the what he has done well but come on with every positive you have a negative.If he was TSM he would of been long gone.

The point is that if he was TSM then it would have been extremely unlikely that the positives mentioned would have occurred. It's not a defense of lambert, it's a comparison of him and TSM.

[bertlambshank]

Why do I have to come on? I've said "spectacularly shit at times" and "amongst the dross". I'm hardly ignoring the negatives and lavishing endless praise on Lambert.

Time to leave it if your going to be like that.