Doug or Randy?

[Fergal]

Has Randy actually given us any money or is it all a loan?

[Big Dick Edwards]

Doug! For all his faults at least he showed he love the Villa.

By sacking a European Cup winning manager and replacing him with Hereford's manager?
By taking us from Champions of Europe to relegation in 5 seasons?
By overseeing the destruction of our famous Trinity Road stand?

[Fergal]

If Randy walks away will he get back all the money he spent?

[saunders_heroes]

Doug! For all his faults at least he showed he love the Villa.

By sacking a European Cup winning manager and replacing him with Hereford's manager?
By taking us from Champions of Europe to relegation in 5 seasons?
By overseeing the destruction of our famous Trinity Road stand?

True, but you missed out the bit about him giving us our longest unbroken stint in the top division in decades?

[dave.woodhall]

Dave, I know the history.  And the point remains that Ellis originally came into a club that was in seemingly terminal decline - and left it (the second time) as one of a handful of permanent fixtures in the Premier League.  There was some very good seasons during his tenure - and a few best forgotten - but generally the club reached and maintained a level that it has "enjoyed" for most of the last 100 years.  So whilst many of the criticisms levelled at him are, for the most part, probably justified, he didn't really sell us short in running a club that a supporter of the 1920s or 1950s would recognise: i.e. a club that was in the top flight and on an occasional basis challenging for an honour.

And got relegated twice, once from a position of strength unparalleled since 1897.

Not really like for like though.

And at least when Doug flogged players the money was reinvested (Merson and  Dublin from Yorke being a prime example).

You're absolutely right it isn't like for like. Two relegations versus none. £40 million taken out versus £200 million+ put in. Shall I continue?

[dave.woodhall]

Doug! For all his faults at least he showed he love the Villa.

By sacking a European Cup winning manager and replacing him with Hereford's manager?
By taking us from Champions of Europe to relegation in 5 seasons?
By overseeing the destruction of our famous Trinity Road stand?

True, but you missed out the bit about him giving us our longest unbroken stint in the top division in decades?

Well there's an achievement, and no mistake. He kept us up for 18 years - what's ruining the European Champions compared to that?

[PeterWithesShin]

Lerner over Ellis every day of the week.

[garyshawsknee]

Didn't he try and sell Gary Shaw to Barcelona ? Or is that one a myth ?

[dave.woodhall]

Didn't he try and sell Gary Shaw to Barcelona ? Or is that one a myth ?

It's true. On the night we played them.

[Irish villain]

Dave, I know the history.  And the point remains that Ellis originally came into a club that was in seemingly terminal decline - and left it (the second time) as one of a handful of permanent fixtures in the Premier League.  There was some very good seasons during his tenure - and a few best forgotten - but generally the club reached and maintained a level that it has "enjoyed" for most of the last 100 years.  So whilst many of the criticisms levelled at him are, for the most part, probably justified, he didn't really sell us short in running a club that a supporter of the 1920s or 1950s would recognise: i.e. a club that was in the top flight and on an occasional basis challenging for an honour.

And got relegated twice, once from a position of strength unparalleled since 1897.

Not really like for like though.

And at least when Doug flogged players the money was reinvested (Merson and  Dublin from Yorke being a prime example).

You're absolutely right it isn't like for like. Two relegations versus none. £40 million taken out versus £200 million+ put in. Shall I continue?

I have to concede to you that I didn't live through it and from one with a strong interest in the club's history I agree that relegation in '87 is a serious stain on Ellis' record.

You must concede though that clubs like Leeds suffered relegation in the 80s after long periods of dominance and that relegation wasn't the financial disaster that it would be today. We came back and quickly became a top first division club again (as did Leeds), whereas relegation for Leeds and Shefield Wednesday in the Premier League era has been an unmitigated disaster.

And, if Ellis is the devil incarnate, surely you must also concede it is quite an achievement on Lerner's behalf to have created a situation where so many of us are looking back wistfully at the Ellis era?

[saunders_heroes]

Doug! For all his faults at least he showed he love the Villa.

By sacking a European Cup winning manager and replacing him with Hereford's manager?
By taking us from Champions of Europe to relegation in 5 seasons?
By overseeing the destruction of our famous Trinity Road stand?

True, but you missed out the bit about him giving us our longest unbroken stint in the top division in decades?

Well there's an achievement, and no mistake. He kept us up for 18 years - what's ruining the European Champions compared to that?

Well we were hardly ruined as we came back just the season after and have been here ever since.
For all his faults he had Villa's best interest at heart. Do you think the same of Lerner?

[dave.woodhall]

Dave, I know the history.  And the point remains that Ellis originally came into a club that was in seemingly terminal decline - and left it (the second time) as one of a handful of permanent fixtures in the Premier League.  There was some very good seasons during his tenure - and a few best forgotten - but generally the club reached and maintained a level that it has "enjoyed" for most of the last 100 years.  So whilst many of the criticisms levelled at him are, for the most part, probably justified, he didn't really sell us short in running a club that a supporter of the 1920s or 1950s would recognise: i.e. a club that was in the top flight and on an occasional basis challenging for an honour.

And got relegated twice, once from a position of strength unparalleled since 1897.

Not really like for like though.

And at least when Doug flogged players the money was reinvested (Merson and  Dublin from Yorke being a prime example).

You're absolutely right it isn't like for like. Two relegations versus none. £40 million taken out versus £200 million+ put in. Shall I continue?

I have to concede to you that I didn't live through it and from one with a strong interest in the club's history I agree that relegation in '87 is a serious stain on Ellis' record.

You must concede though that clubs like Leeds suffered relegation in the 80s after long periods of dominance and that relegation wasn't the financial disaster that it would be today. We came back and quickly became a top first division club again (as did Leeds), whereas relegation for Leeds and Shefield Wednesday in the Premier League era has been an unmitigated disaster.

And, if Ellis is the devil incarnate, surely you must also concede it is quite an achievement on Lerner's behalf to have created a situation where so many of us are looking back wistfully at the Ellis era?

People buy war books. It doesn't mean they want to fight another one.

[Irish villain]

And I'm not sticking up for Ellis, held us back for so long and was a twat. It's just that Lerner is allowing us to sink and is showing no leadership. As somebody said to me yesterday, Villa look like a club that's waiting desperately for something to galvanise them but there's no sign of anything like that happening and so they are just listless.

[eastie]

Doug! For all his faults at least he showed he love the Villa.

By sacking a European Cup winning manager and replacing him with Hereford's manager?
By taking us from Champions of Europe to relegation in 5 seasons?
By overseeing the destruction of our famous Trinity Road stand?

True, but you missed out the bit about him giving us our longest unbroken stint in the top division in decades?

Well there's an achievement, and no mistake. He kept us up for 18 years - what's ruining the European Champions compared to that?

The team he took over had just finished 11 th in the league dave , yes it was broken up too soon but it's harsh to blame doug totally when the slide in the league of 10 places happened before he came back.

I am not saying he's blameless but when we were relegated we had dropped from 11th t o relegation in those 5 years , not from 1st to relegation.

Doug made many mistakes but he wasnt all bad.

[TonyD]

Doug.  Two 2nd places, 2 cups. 

Lerner had one chance and he spunked it on MON.

If he doesnt back PL in the next 2 weeks to buy a couple of decent players then I would like him to put the for sale sign up.