Jordan Bowery

[paul_e]

Whatever happened to stuart445?

Fled the Benteke thread in shame never to return?

[pauliewalnuts]

Reflecting on the game I'm not sure Lambert's formation really worked

Reflecting on the score I'm sure it did.

Fine point taken, but there were a few times when Lowton was left exposed. Against a better, or even competent, side I don't think we'll see the same team line up.

But we weren't playing a better or competent side, we were playing Stoke, and it's entirely possible the manager chose the team and formation to reflect that, surely?

For some people there always has to be an element of "yeah, but ...." even when we win.

We've won 3-1 at a place we never win, against a team we've dragged into the relegation battle, we've scored the best goal scored by a Villa player in several years, the press are united in insisting we were the better team by so much, it was embarrassing, and we've even managed to throw in coming back from an undeserved setback.

What more do people want?

[seanthevillan]

Reflecting on the game I'm not sure Lambert's formation really worked

Reflecting on the score I'm sure it did.

Fine point taken, but there were a few times when Lowton was left exposed. Against a better, or even competent, side I don't think we'll see the same team line up.

But we weren't playing a better or competent side, we were playing Stoke, and it's entirely possible the manager chose the team and formation to reflect that, surely?

For some people there always has to be an element of "yeah, but ...." even when we win.

We've won 3-1 at a place we never win, against a team we've dragged into the relegation battle, we've scored the best goal scored by a Villa player in several years, the press are united in insisting we were the better team by so much, it was embarrassing, and we've even managed to throw in coming back from an undeserved setback.

What more do people want?

Nothing, but that doesn't mean we can't discuss the game/selection/formation etc. in retrospect.

[dave.woodhall]

Discussing it is one thing. Complaining about team selection and tactics after we won 3-1 away seems a bit daft.

[pauliewalnuts]

Nothing, but that doesn't mean we can't discuss the game/selection/formation etc. in retrospect.

But moaning about what would have happened had we played a better team with that formation?

Even if you get over the sapping negativity of it, like i said, there's no guarantee we'd have lined up like that against a better team in any case.

Relax and enjoy a marvellous result.

[seanthevillan]

Nothing, but that doesn't mean we can't discuss the game/selection/formation etc. in retrospect.

But moaning about what would have happened had we played a better team with that formation?

Even if you get over the sapping negativity of it, like i said, there's no guarantee we'd have lined up like that against a better team in any case.

Relax and enjoy a marvellous result.

Bit of an overreaction I think - I didn't moan or really complain, just question the formation, and sapping negativity? There might be plenty of that around on here but its not normally from me. Change the first sentence of my original post to 'didn't work perfectly' and I think its pretty reasonable.

And I bet there's not one of us who isn't enjoying the result (relaxing might take a few weeks)!

[Monty]

FWIW, teams win in spite of all sort of mistakes all the time, including team selection errors. I think it illustrates just how vastly superior we are to Stoke today that - at least in my view - we hampered ourselves with the choice of starting eleven.

[PeterWithesShin]

People being far too quick to write off some of our players is a feature of this season. Give the kid a break, FFS. He did well today, and almost scored. Twice, in fact.

Big ups, by the way, to those who told us Benteke and Westwood weren't good enough so early this season.

I'll add those that said Delph would never be good enough. Respect *taps chest*

[PeterWithesShin]

FWIW, teams win in spite of all sort of mistakes all the time, including team selection errors. I think it illustrates just how vastly superior we are to Stoke today that - at least in my view - we hampered ourselves with the choice of starting eleven.

Very few of them limit their opponents to 2 shots on target and score three and create another 5 or 6 great chances. Away from home.

[Dave Cooper please]

FWIW, teams win in spite of all sort of mistakes all the time, including team selection errors. I think it illustrates just how vastly superior we are to Stoke today that - at least in my view - we hampered ourselves with the choice of starting eleven.

No, sorry, can't accept this. We sent a massive message to Stoke with our selection - "We are going to attack and we are going to score".
In what way do you reckon we could have selected a better team to start the game?

[Monty]

I'll add those that said Delph would never be good enough. Respect *taps chest*

Delph put in a performance against Bradford of almost willful gashness. Since then, however, he's been getting better and better (the yellow cards notwithstanding, and he really needs to work on that). Today he looked assured, like he really believed he deserves to be there.

No, sorry, can't accept this. We sent a massive message to Stoke with our selection - "We are going to attack and we are going to score".
In what way do you reckon we could have selected a better team to start the game?

Very few of them limit their opponents to 2 shots on target and score three and create another 5 or 6 great chances. Away from home.

Oh agreed. We were miles, miles better than them, it was like watching something extremely stupid getting beaten to death with a book of crosswords. And Bowery did contribute, especially off the ball, he works both bollocks off. However, if we'd played, say, N'Zogbia from the start instead, I believe we'd have sent a much more attacking message to Stoke, rather than showing up a defensive insecurity, and given ourselves a better chance of not letting them back into the game, not least because our counter-attack threat would have been so potent as to neuter them completely.

It's just a view, and the issue is an academic one. But it would be complacent to assume there can never be improvements even after such a comprehensive win, particularly when we consider how poor Stoke were.

[PeterWithesShin]

Starting with 4 strikers is a pretty decent sign we planned to attack. Sure Bowery is useful at defending set pieces, but ultimately he is a striker. And did Stoke play so bad, in part at least, due to our formation, tactics and how we played? We'll never know for certain but could well have contributed.

As for Delph, i've maintained for a long time there was a player there. Maybe we are finally seeing it as he is injury free and getting a run with a manager who believes in him. Whatever the reason, long may it last!

[Ads]

Delph has the legs to drive the game on from the midfield and appears to be learning to tackle from somebody other than Paul Scholes.

[Monty]

Oh of course we can't know for sure, and it's not like Bowery went out there and did a Heskey. However, there were a few occasions where he ran down blind alleys or dwelled on the ball too long and it seemed to take the sting out of our attacks. Having said that, those are two criticisms which absolutely apply to Zog at his worst, so there's no cut-and-dried argument here.

Also, the formation and overall tactics were absolutely spot on. We didn't long-ball them, like they're set up to defend against, and they looked lost. I was worried Lambert was falling into that weird fallacy that some managers do when playing Stoke, or Allardyce: trying to fight fire with fire even if you have water available. Lambert was smarter than that and it paid off in a big way.

[PeterWithesShin]

Every player does that sometimes though, I bet even Messi does it sometimes   
We have to remember Bowery was making only his second start at this level so is going to be even more prone to the occasional error or bad decision. I'll admit to being perplexed when I heard the team news inside the ground. Neither me or Mr Sox could work out the formation. But can't argue with it as it worked. I doubt many sides have been to the Brit the last few years and dominated like we did.