No Respect

[rob_bridge]

And I'd have an issue with the notion that protecting democracy was at the forefront of the thinking behind Britain getting involved in WWI. I'm certainly no expert, but protecting their interests was surely as big a motivation.

Wilson regarded neither Fance or Britain as democracies and expressed desire for national-self determination was only applied on former Austrian and German possessions and was quite simply ignored somewhere closer to home! However, you can't hold millions of conscripts/volunteers to account for their governments in WW1 it was a different era to WW2.  Democracy in 1914 barely resembled democracy of 1920.

I have never worn a poppy even though it is becoming more common in Southern Ireland and I might do next year. I would definitely have worn the poppy if I was a Premier League player, I see the bigger picture and I feel some tend to drag up all sorts of atrocities (what nation doesn't have skeletons in the closet?) to justify having a go.

My Grandfather was in the Royal Munster Fusiliers and was at the 2nd battle of Ypres in 1917.

I am not offended by people who don't want to wear a poppy. I always contribute to the collections over here and some years I wear a poppy and some years I don't though I always observe the 2 mins silence to remember victims of all wars regardless of nationality.

WW1 had nothing to do with democracy rather prevention of Germany dominating Europe as per previous wars where Britain did not want a single dominant power on its' doorstep. This happened before with wars against France, Spain and Holland in the previous 400 years. The disorderly collapse of 3 empires (Austro-Hungarian, Russian and Ottoman) and the creation of artificial states lead to World War II and a lot of the crap in the Middle East today.

[Jon Crofts]

Quite simply that he has abused his position as VP of the Union, like I said he was invited because of the office he holds, he was elected to represent 120,000 students, he failed & now invites students to a meeting so he can explain why he didn't represent them.

He's young, we all make mistakes, hopefully he'll learn from it.

And maybe over the years you'll grow to understand that democracy is about people holding different opinions. Like hopefully you've realised now that WW1 was nothing to do with democracy and that Britain wasn't even a democracy when the war took place.

My comment regarding democracy wasn't specifically related to WW1, just like remembrance.  Perhaps if Daniel Cooper knew that he perhaps would have laid a wreath to honour a recent former graduate of UCL Lt Drummond - Baxter, but no.

[WarszaVillan]

Quite simply that he has abused his position as VP of the Union, like I said he was invited because of the office he holds, he was elected to represent 120,000 students, he failed & now invites students to a meeting so he can explain why he didn't represent them.

He's young, we all make mistakes, hopefully he'll learn from it.

And maybe over the years you'll grow to understand that democracy is about people holding different opinions. Like hopefully you've realised now that WW1 was nothing to do with democracy and that Britain wasn't even a democracy when the war took place.

My comment regarding democracy wasn't specifically related to WW1, just like remembrance.  Perhaps if Daniel Cooper knew that he perhaps would have laid a wreath to honour a recent former graduate of UCL Lt Drummond - Baxter, but no.

So when you wrote 'Democracy, the very thing all those people died defending, how ironic' you were not tallking about the millions that died in WW1, which is supposed to be what Remembrance Sunday is all about. mmm

[Jon Crofts]

Quite simply that he has abused his position as VP of the Union, like I said he was invited because of the office he holds, he was elected to represent 120,000 students, he failed & now invites students to a meeting so he can explain why he didn't represent them.

He's young, we all make mistakes, hopefully he'll learn from it.

And maybe over the years you'll grow to understand that democracy is about people holding different opinions. Like hopefully you've realised now that WW1 was nothing to do with democracy and that Britain wasn't even a democracy when the war took place.

My comment regarding democracy wasn't specifically related to WW1, just like remembrance.  Perhaps if Daniel Cooper knew that he perhaps would have laid a wreath to honour a recent former graduate of UCL Lt Drummond - Baxter, but no.

So when you wrote 'Democracy, the very thing all those people died defending, how ironic' you were not tallking about the millions that died in WW1, which is supposed to be what Remembrance Sunday is all about. mmm

Remembrance is not just about WW1, Remembrance Sunday is held "to commemorate the contribution of British and Commonwealth military and civilian servicemen and women in the two World Wars and later conflicts"

Maybe you are thinking of Armistice Day?  Which was always observed on 11 November and marked the end of WW1, Remembrance Sunday was always the closest Sunday to 11th November.  Since 1995 the 2 have merged so to speak to become Remembrance Sunday following the 50th anniversary of the end of WW2.

If you honestly didn't know that then sorry for arguing such a strong point!

[WarszaVillan]

of course it is, held on the anniversary of the end of the First World War, so its kinda important. Anyway have a nice day and UTV

[Jon Crofts]

Of course it's what?  Do you really want to continue telling me Remembrance Sunday is only about WW1?

Do go on.

[WarszaVillan]

calm down love. I understand what Remembrance Day is about, my point being that it is closely related to WW1. You said that we remember all those that fought for democracy, so I assume on Remembrance Day you choose not to remember those who died in WW1. Now I tried to end this pleasantly with a gesture of common affection for AVFC, you chose to decline my hand of friendship but I won't hold it against you.

[MoetVillan]

I dont think the ethics of why we fought in each war should be up for debate.  Rememberance is about the soldiers that fought for their country because they believed in protecting their loved ones and their country.  What the powers that be decide is worth fighting for was not for them to debate in many cases, with drafting etc, they fought regardlessly, and in fact sometimes despite their own beliefs.  Thats what I remember, people who put their lives on the line for us.  I dont wear a poppy to please anyone, or say I agree with the decisions.  I stood on a Normandy beach a few years ago, it was pissing down and freezing, and sent a shiver down my spine, thinking what it would have been like under fire.  My great granddad landed there, thrust into a foreign country, in the middle of friends and comrades who were cut down by mortars and machine guns.  18 years old, hardly even had a life then, at that age I hadnt been lucky enough to be married, get a degree, travel around a lot of the world, and best of all be blessed with a daughter.  I feel incredibly lucky, not just that the sacrifice soldiers made meant that all of this was possible, but that I could enjoy all of these things without having to make such a decision, or the decision taken out of my own hands. 

[Jon Crofts]

Well that's a change of tune, from

So when you wrote 'Democracy, the very thing all those people died defending, how ironic' you were not tallking about the millions that died in WW1, which is supposed to be what Remembrance Sunday is all about. mmm

To 

I understand what Remembrance Day is about

In 2 posts. 

Anyway, your hand of friendship is appreciated & taken, we may continue to disagree with each other however but in a gentlemanly & non threatening inclusive way.

[Irish villain]

How did we get onto this? My apologies if I confused things I wrote my post in a hurry before lunch and respect all British army who fought in WW1 and as said would wear a poppy if I lived in Britain and as it is becoming more common here wouldn't rule it out one day.

[Mazrim]

I don't (nor do I believe anybody should) consider the poppy to be a political symbol of any particular nation or organisation but rather one that people use to show respect to others who have lost their lives in what is basically a tragedy.

If you don't wish to wear one, that's fine, it isn't mandatory. I buy them but rarely wear one. But if you're trying to make some sort of statement by not wearing one then, sorry, but I think you're a bit of an ignorant twat. Like McClean.

Whatever term you choose to apply to it. Our way of life has been paid for with the blood of millions, some just kids, and from all over the world in all walks of life: British, Irish, Canadian, American, Indian, Australian, Kiwis, Carribean, French, German, Polish, Israeli... it doesn't matter.
It's not the insignia of the Parachute regiment, its a flower. Even if there are some you consider it represents that you would rather not respect, if you cannot think of anybody who does deserve to be remembered and honoured then I just can't accept that.

Just my opinion. And sorry, but it's a bit of a sore point for me too.

[pauliewalnuts]

McLean's gesture is somewhat pointless, but nothing will top this for a while:

[Stu]

Celtic fans in melodrama shocker. I like the way they try and make it all about them.

[dave.woodhall]

How ironic that this thread has turned into a debate about how a simple act of recognition and support has become politicised and used to score cheap points.

[Broughty-Villian]

I dont wear a poppy because i dont like the one upnes of it all know. I see people wearing crochet ones, and decorated ones. also if you buy one and loose it you have to get another one. So i make a sizeable donation, and just carry one of my grandads war medals about me for when one ignoramous says where your poppy, "Don't need to wear one pal" and wave it at them. Happened 3 times this year