What is it with Phil Dowd?

[kippaxvilla2]

And the referee for this weekends game is...........

[ktvillan]

I agree with much of what Davevillan has said, and a lot of people are very ignorant of the rules - see all the claptrap about Hutton getting the ball.    The refs job has become so difficult because the laws of the game have become ridiculously punitive of very minor offences, making game-ruining red cards far too common.  It's a good job refs tend to overlook the penalty area melees at corner kicks otherwise it would end up 4 a side.  But refs don't help themselves by falling for some blatantly obvious  cheating. 

As for Dowd, he does make some strange decisions, but apart from the LCF they have tended to balance each other out as far we're concerned.  If you want an example of a genuine anti-villa ref look back in the archives to pretty much every game the despicable David Elleray reffed for us.

[KevinGage]

My uncle- a mild mannered and rational sort- absolutely despised David Elleray, and would recoil in horror every time he saw his name on the back of the match programme.

[Brend'Watkins]

Phil Dowd is bad but no where near as bad as Elleray was.  George Courtney too was a monumental c***.

The thing with Dowd like Poll before him and a few others is that he wants to be mates on the pitch with the players, by that, I mean mates with the Sky 4 players.  It winds me up intensely.   

[Leicester_Villian]

Referee tomorrow is Kev Friend

[PeterWithesShin]

Referee tomorrow is Kev Friend

[davevillan]

Some interesting comments here.
Dowd got it wrong at Wembley, he made a mistake. The problem being it was a game changing decision tho, and that what was disappointing that day.
With the WBA game last year, a) hutton should have gone for the 'tackle' on Long and b) the Herd red card was on the advice of the A/R.
The Norwich game, imo Joe had to go, it wasnt malicious, however it was a deliberate block to prevent the Norwich guy getting to the ball. As it was deliberate, it had to be yellow. I know you wont agree Rutski, but trust me Dowd was correct.
With the Herd '2nd yellow', if we remember Dowd played a great advantage as the Norwich player put Holt through on goal as Herd clattered into him. The advice is always to never play advantage if you are going to send off. Had an advantage not been able, then im certain Herd would have been on his way.
All fouls etc are 'in the opinion' of the ref, and on this thread alone there are differing opinions, some correct, some incorrect imo, but thats football.
Someone mentioned about the ref using common sense, but let me ask this, when do players use common sense??
Games these days have cameras all round the ground, and every contentious decision is played over from many different angles/speeds, yet still the so called experts cant decide. yet the ref has one view in real time and has to make a split second judgement call...He can only give what he see's. and then apply the Laws based on his decision.
Im also a Referee instructor, and every time i teach on a basic refs course, i always get people surprised at how little they really know about the Laws of the game.

I can't agree with you on the Bennett thing.  From the closest angle to which he'd have seen it you have a clear view of both of them having a go, then the norwich player went down and he gave the yellow card.  Also there was never a warning to Bennett and the incident wasn't in an area where there was real danger of Norwich scoring.  Also as it will have been given as a professional foul rather than dangerous play it really wouldn't have been a surprise for him to call him over and have a talk/give a warning.  that then gives the manager a chance to react and you can have no disagreement if it's followed by a sending off.  As it was I don't believe he committed a single foul between his 2 bookings.

I guess my major issue comes from the fact that yellow cards don't carry much weight so some refs hand them out like sweets.  A greater implication for a yellow card would serve 2 purposes, players might take them more seriously and be less willing to do silly things (like kicking the ball away) and refs might be forced to consider their decisions more.

Of course the other thing I'd like is for the ref mics to be open so they could explain their decisions, it's an idea that works really well in a number of other sports.  The argument against it is that the game is played at a higher pace and the talking points make it exciting, both of which are a bit silly really when some of these decisions are worth millions.

I mention it too much but take rugby for example, there are refs in that who I hate at least as much as Dowd (Alain Rolland is probably my least favourite official in any sport ever) but I grudgingly accept most of his decisions because he has to explain them, so, whilst I disagree I understand why he's taken the action he has and how he has interpreted the rules.  Yellows also mean something immediate as it's expected for a side to concede on average 7 points whilst they're a man down.  You do still get people doing silly things but more often than not the players make a professional foul knowing that they're going to take 10minutes for it.

How do you mean 'professional foul'? That implies it was deliberate which in all fairness it was. The Norwich lad had no reason to 'grapple ' with Joe, apart from trying to get away from him. It certainly looked liked Joe moved over to block him and prevent him from getting to the ball. Why would the Norwich lad do it??
Therefore if its a deliberate foul, its a yellow card, as he clearly wasnt making any attempt to play the ball.
Sometimes there are games where there are more yellows, but is that down to the ref, or the players?
As a ref, you will ref the game the players want to play. Bearing in mind there are a few mandatory yellow card offences today, if players commit them, then whose fault is that...As far as fouls etc go, then thats down to opinion. Your opinion and mine might differ, as on the Bennet 2nd yellow.. Thats what makes the game the great game we all love.
As for your comment about refs being miked up and explaining decisions, remember Millwall v Arsenal in the 80's when Elleray was miked up and all the swearing was heard. also about explaining decisions, thats all well and good if people accept that.
Remember our 4-2 game with newcastle a few years ago when Tommy Sorenson handled the ball to the side of the penalty area?
Mile Riley quite correctly gave a yellow card, as it was out wide and therefore not denying a clear goalscoring opportunity. He got a lot of stick in the media as the 'so called' experts said it should have been red as it was outside the peanlty area/last man bollocks!!
Eve tho he was interviewed after the game to exlain this, those muppets on motd still said he was wrong.
|Therein lies the problem, people who just watch and listen to the tv/radio tend to belive what these people say, when in fact they dont know what they are on about at times regarding the Laws of the game!

[paulcomben]

Kevin Friend is lightweight and certainly ready to enter Fergie's overcrowded back pocket. FYI, he keeps match officials on the right side of his arse.

[phantom limb]

I'm sure it was Kevin Friend who didn't give a nailed on pen and red card against Bosingwa when we played Chelsea a couple of seasons back. We still won and Bosingwa ended up getting horribly injured, so there you go.

[Lambert and Payne]

Some interesting comments here.
Dowd got it wrong at Wembley, he made a mistake. The problem being it was a game changing decision tho, and that what was disappointing that day.
With the WBA game last year, a) hutton should have gone for the 'tackle' on Long and b) the Herd red card was on the advice of the A/R.
The Norwich game, imo Joe had to go, it wasnt malicious, however it was a deliberate block to prevent the Norwich guy getting to the ball. As it was deliberate, it had to be yellow. I know you wont agree Rutski, but trust me Dowd was correct.
With the Herd '2nd yellow', if we remember Dowd played a great advantage as the Norwich player put Holt through on goal as Herd clattered into him. The advice is always to never play advantage if you are going to send off. Had an advantage not been able, then im certain Herd would have been on his way.
All fouls etc are 'in the opinion' of the ref, and on this thread alone there are differing opinions, some correct, some incorrect imo, but thats football.
Someone mentioned about the ref using common sense, but let me ask this, when do players use common sense??
Games these days have cameras all round the ground, and every contentious decision is played over from many different angles/speeds, yet still the so called experts cant decide. yet the ref has one view in real time and has to make a split second judgement call...He can only give what he see's. and then apply the Laws based on his decision.
Im also a Referee instructor, and every time i teach on a basic refs course, i always get people surprised at how little they really know about the Laws of the game.

I'd like to back up Dave here. He's been brilliant with helping me along with refereeing, and he's got everything spot on here. I'd like to add though that Dowd has an arrogance and an attitude I really dont like, his body language is awful and his fitness

[davevillan]

Some interesting comments here.
Dowd got it wrong at Wembley, he made a mistake. The problem being it was a game changing decision tho, and that what was disappointing that day.
With the WBA game last year, a) hutton should have gone for the 'tackle' on Long and b) the Herd red card was on the advice of the A/R.
The Norwich game, imo Joe had to go, it wasnt malicious, however it was a deliberate block to prevent the Norwich guy getting to the ball. As it was deliberate, it had to be yellow. I know you wont agree Rutski, but trust me Dowd was correct.
With the Herd '2nd yellow', if we remember Dowd played a great advantage as the Norwich player put Holt through on goal as Herd clattered into him. The advice is always to never play advantage if you are going to send off. Had an advantage not been able, then im certain Herd would have been on his way.
All fouls etc are 'in the opinion' of the ref, and on this thread alone there are differing opinions, some correct, some incorrect imo, but thats football.
Someone mentioned about the ref using common sense, but let me ask this, when do players use common sense??
Games these days have cameras all round the ground, and every contentious decision is played over from many different angles/speeds, yet still the so called experts cant decide. yet the ref has one view in real time and has to make a split second judgement call...He can only give what he see's. and then apply the Laws based on his decision.
Im also a Referee instructor, and every time i teach on a basic refs course, i always get people surprised at how little they really know about the Laws of the game.

I'd like to back up Dave here. He's been brilliant with helping me along with refereeing, and he's got everything spot on here. I'd like to add though that Dowd has an arrogance and an attitude I really dont like, his body language is awful and his fitness

Thank you Alex, i hope all is going well with your season.
Another point on the Norwich game. In the 1st half Dowd got stick from some sections of the Holte when one of our defenders was fouled by the goal-line between the about halfway between the edge of the peanlty area, and the 6yrd box, and Dowd gave us the goal kick..Cue comments about him missing it. I tried to explain to some, he hadnt missed it, but its more advantage to us to have the goal kick which can be taken anywhere in that 6yrd area, then have the free kick by the goal line and a bit wider...Something as simple as that, which was the correct decision and he still gets stick.

[Steve R]

That's a very interesting read Davevillan.

The Bennett incident as I saw it (TV) the Bennett grapple happenned before the Norwich guy made off with the ball. He had his arms around Bennett's neck. I thought there should have been a free kick before Bennett (J) deliberatey legged the guy over.

The real infuriating thing is that in another game the same day (can't remember which one) the same thing happened and the second yellow was not forthcoming. 'the ref showed common sense' according to the commentator.

One person's common sense is another's stupidity and another's bias. I'd prefer a game where players clearly understand what will and will not keep them on the pitch. Rugby seems to manage this.

One of football's problems is that things like diving, encroaching at free kicks and gobbing off at the ref tend to help you to win games. Rugby is set up in such a way that these things are more likely to lead to defeat.

Re miking of refs. Yes you would hear swearing I guess. But not for long. You would also get more even refereeing, especially in games involving top table teams. I am not convinced there is the will within football to take this route

[pauliewalnuts]

Brimg back Roger Milford.

[paul_e]

That's a very interesting read Davevillan.

The Bennett incident as I saw it (TV) the Bennett grapple happenned before the Norwich guy made off with the ball. He had his arms around Bennett's neck. I thought there should have been a free kick before Bennett (J) deliberatey legged the guy over.

The real infuriating thing is that in another game the same day (can't remember which one) the same thing happened and the second yellow was not forthcoming. 'the ref showed common sense' according to the commentator.

One person's common sense is another's stupidity and another's bias. I'd prefer a game where players clearly understand what will and will not keep them on the pitch. Rugby seems to manage this.

One of football's problems is that things like diving, encroaching at free kicks and gobbing off at the ref tend to help you to win games. Rugby is set up in such a way that these things are more likely to lead to defeat.

Re miking of refs. Yes you would hear swearing I guess. But not for long. You would also get more even refereeing, especially in games involving top table teams. I am not convinced there is the will within football to take this route

Bottom bit is my thoughts on it as well.  Have a situation where players heard swearing on the mic or generally acting like idiots cause the club to be punished in some way.  Basically anything to force players to show the ref some respect.

I don't think we'll ever get everyone thinking the same on the Bennett yellow but personally I'm of the opinion that, of all the refs I've seen in the prem this season, Dowd would be in the minority in giving a 2nd yellow for that offence.

[Clampy]

Brimg back Roger Milford.

My brother used to hate him with a passion.