What is it with Phil Dowd?

[fredm]

And if we are talking about referees inconsistencies how about Bardsley not getting a second yellow today for taking Gabby out (again) but Benteke getting one for a bit of arm wrestling with O'Shea on the edge of the Sunderland penalty area?

[Percy McCarthy]

I think Man Utd would have replaced Owen had Vidic been sent off, and he got the equaliser. We would have won IMO.

I hate Mike Dean as well. Remember his comedy wobble when he got hit with a coin?

[ozzjim]

Vidic should have been sent off regardless of the minute of the game.


The Norwich Bennett totally diddled our Bennett last week too. Was very professional, and was 50/50 as to who was fouling, as their guy hooked his arm in and sprinted, then fell down. It was a professional buying of a foul... almost like leaving your leg out knowing it was going to get caught.

[PeterWithesShin]

I agree that the minute and/or occasion should make no difference. If it is a red card offence, which the Vidic challenge was, then regardless of whether it's the first minute of the World Cup final or the 85th minute of a 33-0 game on Hackney Marshes the player should be off. What is the point of having a referee on the pitch to enforce the laws of the game if it's up to him (or his superiors) to decide that the rules change depending on the importance of game, or how much time has passed.

And that red card would have changed the rest of that final. Vidic sent off = either Berbatov or Owen off to make room for Wes Brown most likely. Now i'd rather have 85 minutes attacking Wes Brown than Vidic.
And as it was Berbatov who set up Owen for the equalizer, it's fair to assume that would never have happened with one of them off the pitch.

We may have lost anyway even against 10 men, but it's a real pisser to never know because the rules of the game were ignored.

[Mister E]

Vidic should have been sent off regardless of the minute of the game.


The Norwich Bennett totally diddled our Bennett last week too. Was very professional, and was 50/50 as to who was fouling, as their guy hooked his arm in and sprinted, then fell down. It was a professional buying of a foul... almost like leaving your leg out knowing it was going to get caught.

Absolutely right. I'm stilll convinced that Dowd didn't see the offence - it was flagged by the linesman, who wouldn't have had the best view because he was down the line by 15-20m.

I've just qualified as a ref (at a very junior level) and we're told not to give stuff that you are not sure about; if in doubt, err on the side of caution. Dowd, IMO, certianly did not do that in Bennett's case.

His integrity is blown when the Herd performance is dissected.

[rutski]

And if we are talking about referees inconsistencies how about Bardsley not getting a second yellow today for taking Gabby out (again) but Benteke getting one for a bit of arm wrestling with O'Shea on the edge of the Sunderland penalty area?

this point made by fredm is exactly why we as fans get in such a fury with officials as bardsley should definitely have walked on saturday. after getting warned about an initial foul on gabby he got his first yellow card for a 2nd foul. he then fouled him a 3rd time and then an incident where gabby was away and bardsley held him back. this 4th foul should have been a 2nd yellow followed by a red. instead got told off again and was then subbed keeping 11 men on the field for sland. double standards or inept reffereing. what ever it is there is no consistency at all!

[dcdavecollett]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't this the same ref who sent Ashley Young off at Bramall Lane for two fouls?

[Mike Jeffries]

He isn't anti Villa, but he is a very poor ref and indeed probably a very naughty boy.

[rutski]

not that i am obsessed with him but my 7 year old said yesterday, hey dad, i just got a swap of your favourite ref!





tosser

[rutski]

i am glad he is upside down the twat!

[davevillan]

Some interesting comments here.
Dowd got it wrong at Wembley, he made a mistake. The problem being it was a game changing decision tho, and that what was disappointing that day.
With the WBA game last year, a) hutton should have gone for the 'tackle' on Long and b) the Herd red card was on the advice of the A/R.
The Norwich game, imo Joe had to go, it wasnt malicious, however it was a deliberate block to prevent the Norwich guy getting to the ball. As it was deliberate, it had to be yellow. I know you wont agree Rutski, but trust me Dowd was correct.
With the Herd '2nd yellow', if we remember Dowd played a great advantage as the Norwich player put Holt through on goal as Herd clattered into him. The advice is always to never play advantage if you are going to send off. Had an advantage not been able, then im certain Herd would have been on his way.
All fouls etc are 'in the opinion' of the ref, and on this thread alone there are differing opinions, some correct, some incorrect imo, but thats football.
Someone mentioned about the ref using common sense, but let me ask this, when do players use common sense??
Games these days have cameras all round the ground, and every contentious decision is played over from many different angles/speeds, yet still the so called experts cant decide. yet the ref has one view in real time and has to make a split second judgement call...He can only give what he see's. and then apply the Laws based on his decision.
Im also a Referee instructor, and every time i teach on a basic refs course, i always get people surprised at how little they really know about the Laws of the game.

[MoetVillan]

The thing is with Dowd, its consistent piss poor reffing.  The frustration the other day was the consistent missing fouls, or blowing the wrong way, which i think inflamed the crowd and our players.  Turning to the holte to conduct "you're too fat to referee" tells me everything I need to know.  I dont want to talk about the ref, most refs these days you dont notice when you are at the game, which says they are doing the job right.  As for big decisions, he does go the way of the big teams in my opinion, Vidic is one example, and how about the free kick that Gerrard scored from against us in the last few minutes in a MON's first home game against the 'The Mighty Reds YNWA'. Great combination of cheating fucking divers and shit reffing.

[lovejoy]

I think the key point about the "mistake" in the Cup Final was that he had given a decision to send off a Utd player vs Fulham earlier in the season and got criticised by Fergusson. I strongly believe this had a bearing on thought process. If so its unforegivable.

[davevillan]

The thing is with Dowd, its consistent piss poor reffing.  The frustration the other day was the consistent missing fouls, or blowing the wrong way, which i think inflamed the crowd and our players.  Turning to the holte to conduct "you're too fat to referee" tells me everything I need to know.  I dont want to talk about the ref, most refs these days you dont notice when you are at the game, which says they are doing the job right.  As for big decisions, he does go the way of the big teams in my opinion, Vidic is one example, and how about the free kick that Gerrard scored from against us in the last few minutes in a MON's first home game against the 'The Mighty Reds YNWA'. Great combination of cheating fucking divers and shit reffing.

The gerrard free kick wasnt Dowd but Riley.
All teams will have decisons go against them, and as fans we always remember those we dont get or go against us. Not the ones that go in our favour.
Eg, should Michael Oliver ever give something against us, im sure some will slag him off/shit ref etc, but at the same time forget he was our ref at qpr last season when he gave us a pen, and waved away about 3/4 for them.

[paul_e]

Some interesting comments here.
Dowd got it wrong at Wembley, he made a mistake. The problem being it was a game changing decision tho, and that what was disappointing that day.
With the WBA game last year, a) hutton should have gone for the 'tackle' on Long and b) the Herd red card was on the advice of the A/R.
The Norwich game, imo Joe had to go, it wasnt malicious, however it was a deliberate block to prevent the Norwich guy getting to the ball. As it was deliberate, it had to be yellow. I know you wont agree Rutski, but trust me Dowd was correct.
With the Herd '2nd yellow', if we remember Dowd played a great advantage as the Norwich player put Holt through on goal as Herd clattered into him. The advice is always to never play advantage if you are going to send off. Had an advantage not been able, then im certain Herd would have been on his way.
All fouls etc are 'in the opinion' of the ref, and on this thread alone there are differing opinions, some correct, some incorrect imo, but thats football.
Someone mentioned about the ref using common sense, but let me ask this, when do players use common sense??
Games these days have cameras all round the ground, and every contentious decision is played over from many different angles/speeds, yet still the so called experts cant decide. yet the ref has one view in real time and has to make a split second judgement call...He can only give what he see's. and then apply the Laws based on his decision.
Im also a Referee instructor, and every time i teach on a basic refs course, i always get people surprised at how little they really know about the Laws of the game.

I can't agree with you on the Bennett thing.  From the closest angle to which he'd have seen it you have a clear view of both of them having a go, then the norwich player went down and he gave the yellow card.  Also there was never a warning to Bennett and the incident wasn't in an area where there was real danger of Norwich scoring.  Also as it will have been given as a professional foul rather than dangerous play it really wouldn't have been a surprise for him to call him over and have a talk/give a warning.  that then gives the manager a chance to react and you can have no disagreement if it's followed by a sending off.  As it was I don't believe he committed a single foul between his 2 bookings.

I guess my major issue comes from the fact that yellow cards don't carry much weight so some refs hand them out like sweets.  A greater implication for a yellow card would serve 2 purposes, players might take them more seriously and be less willing to do silly things (like kicking the ball away) and refs might be forced to consider their decisions more.

Of course the other thing I'd like is for the ref mics to be open so they could explain their decisions, it's an idea that works really well in a number of other sports.  The argument against it is that the game is played at a higher pace and the talking points make it exciting, both of which are a bit silly really when some of these decisions are worth millions.

I mention it too much but take rugby for example, there are refs in that who I hate at least as much as Dowd (Alain Rolland is probably my least favourite official in any sport ever) but I grudgingly accept most of his decisions because he has to explain them, so, whilst I disagree I understand why he's taken the action he has and how he has interpreted the rules.  Yellows also mean something immediate as it's expected for a side to concede on average 7 points whilst they're a man down.  You do still get people doing silly things but more often than not the players make a professional foul knowing that they're going to take 10minutes for it.