Rugby Union 2012/13

[PaulWinch again]

Getting Ashton the ball is an absolute must and the backline should be geared to that. He's one of the best wingers in world rugby.

[Dave Summers]

Getting Ashton the ball is an absolute must and the backline should be geared to that. He's one of the best wingers in world rugby.

Like many English sports teams, we appear geared to stopping the opposition rather than creating anything ourselves.  This results in a mindset of going out not too lose, rather than trying to win.  What also happens is that we are too worried about what people can't do, rather than what they can.   And as a result of all this, we end up ruining careers like Danny Cipriani because he is that little bit different?

What I wouldn't give for a backline of Youngs, Burns, Twelvetrees, Joseph, May, Ashton and Goode in the 6 nations.   Have the two kickers options and gas to burn and most importantly, some decent passers in the team.

However that won't happen because we have to be worried about what big bad Jamie Roberts will do should he come thundering down the 10 channel.

I can't express just how racked off I currently am with the England team at the moment.  They have had a marvellous opportunity to make a statement this Autumn and have completely flunked it and worse than that, have been as boring to watch as they ever were under the tenure of Johnson, Wells etc etc

[paul_e]

This is going to be a bit of a case of being smug, but what we're seeing is exactly what I thought might happen under Lancaster.  At the time I said on here a few times that I wasn't convinced he was the right choice and I'm still not.

As you say, like so many sports people in the UK the mentality has switched from going for the win, to stopping the other team from winning.  You can always tell when a team has been formed that way because you end up with a massive over reliance on 1 person to turn the game.  For england that's Manu currently.  The game plan is, keep it tight, kick the points on offer, trundle over in the forwards from close range and hope Manu breaks the line and creates something from nothing every now and then.

[Dave Summers]

This is going to be a bit of a case of being smug, but what we're seeing is exactly what I thought might happen under Lancaster.  At the time I said on here a few times that I wasn't convinced he was the right choice and I'm still not.

As you say, like so many sports people in the UK the mentality has switched from going for the win, to stopping the other team from winning.  You can always tell when a team has been formed that way because you end up with a massive over reliance on 1 person to turn the game.  For england that's Manu currently.  The game plan is, keep it tight, kick the points on offer, trundle over in the forwards from close range and hope Manu breaks the line and creates something from nothing every now and then.

I wanted Mallett but after the Six Nations we had there was no way they weren't giving it too Lancaster and I guess on that basis he deserved the job.  The stupid decision to go for an interim coach was the catalyst to that.  They should have picked their man, Mallett and if he couldn't start to the summer then fair enough, then appoint an Interim coach not the other way around.

Lancaster has and can still do a decent job, but I do think they need some fresh thinking, which is what I thought was going to happen with the appointment of Wayne Smith.  I don't think that either Farrell or Catt have served anything like enough time learning their trade to warrant being part of an International coaching set up.

[PaulWinch again]

I think there's still plenty of credit in the bank for Lancaster. He just needs to be a bit more flexible in his thinking. I think he will be or the likes of Burns, Joseph and Launchbury wouldn't be included in the squads.

[paul_e]

I think there's still plenty of credit in the bank for Lancaster. He just needs to be a bit more flexible in his thinking. I think he will be or the likes of Burns, Joseph and Launchbury wouldn't be included in the squads.

I can't decide, he seems quite brave with decisions around the forwards, with players like Tom Youngs, Vunipola, Launchbury among others all being given a chance to earn their spot but in the backs he's very determined to pick players who are regarded as defensively solid and is sacrificing attacking intent to do, Farrell, Barritt, Monye all point towards a predominantly defensive mindset.  Given a choice of Burns and Farrell I can't see many other international coaches going with Farrell, ditto the lack of game time for Joseph who at the very least should have been on for 20 minutes on saturday and would have been for most other nations in that situation.

[PaulWinch again]

I think there's still plenty of credit in the bank for Lancaster. He just needs to be a bit more flexible in his thinking. I think he will be or the likes of Burns, Joseph and Launchbury wouldn't be included in the squads.

I can't decide, he seems quite brave with decisions around the forwards, with players like Tom Youngs, Vunipola, Launchbury among others all being given a chance to earn their spot but in the backs he's very determined to pick players who are regarded as defensively solid and is sacrificing attacking intent to do, Farrell, Barritt, Monye all point towards a predominantly defensive mindset.  Given a choice of Burns and Farrell I can't see many other international coaches going with Farrell, ditto the lack of game time for Joseph who at the very least should have been on for 20 minutes on saturday and would have been for most other nations in that situation.

Yeah it is a concern, but hopefully he'll see this soon.

[Dave Summers]

England team to face New Zealand: 15. Alex Goode (Saracens, 5 caps); 14. Chris Ashton (Saracens, 28 caps), 13. Manusamoa Tuilagi (Leicester Tigers, 16 caps), 12. Brad Barritt (Saracens, 10 caps), Mike Brown (Harlequins, 10 caps); 10. Owen Farrell (Saracens, 11 caps), 9. Ben Youngs (Leicester Tigers, 27 caps); 1. Alex Corbisiero (London Irish, 17 caps), 2. Tom Youngs (Leicester Tigers, 3 caps), 3. Dan Cole (Leicester Tigers, 34 caps), 4. Joe Launchbury (London Wasps, 3 caps), 5. Geoff Parling (Leicester Tigers, 11 caps), 6. Tom Wood (Northampton Saints, 12 caps), 7. Chris Robshaw (Harlequins, capt, 11 caps), 8. Ben Morgan (Gloucester Rugby, 8 caps)

Replacements: 16. David Paice (London Irish, 5 caps), 17. David Wilson (Bath Rugby, 22 caps), 18. Mako Vunipola (Saracens, 3 caps), 19. Courtney Lawes (Northampton Saints, 14 caps), 20. James Haskell (London Wasps, 44 caps), 21. Danny Care (Harlequins, 36 caps), 22. Freddie Burns (Gloucester Rugby, uncapped), 23. Jonathan Joseph (London Irish, 3 caps)

Team as I feared !!!. 

Firstly the positives, I really do like the look of the pack and they played well last week and should be give an opportunity to build on that.  I guess from what people would percieve as our first choice pack we are missing Hartley, Lawes and Croft from the starting 8.  Add these three in and one or two others and we are starting to get a decent pack of forwards again?

I also love the look of the bench with Lawes, Haskell and Vunipola to bring some power on to the field in the second half.

Negatives :  What a thoroughly depressing set of backs that is?.  It has got very little going for it in my eyes and I can't quite believe we have gone through the entire Autumn series and picked Barritt and Tuilagi every single game?. 

This team is set up, in a McLeish type way, of damage limitation and going out there not too lose, as opposed to trying to win.  If Farrell is the answer then goodness only knows what the question is.  He can't get a game at 10 for Sarries, so why in heavens name is he being picked in that position for England?.  Ashton and Brown may as well come and sit with me in the North Stand, because I have as much chance of getting a pass as them.

I really hope I am proven wrong and we will "give it a lash" on Saturday, but I just can't see it.  I think it's a team picked to try and keep the ball and hope to sneak 4/5 pens and win 15/9 or something.  I hope if Burns and JJ come on, we aren't too far adrift so that they won't have a chance to influence matters.

[PaulWinch again]

Yeah the backline isn't too inspiring. I'd have Youngs, Tuilagi, Ashton and Goode in the team.

[Dave Summers]

Yeah the backline isn't too inspiring. I'd have Youngs, Tuilagi, Ashton and Goode in the team.

So would I.  Youngs and Burns at half backs, Tuilagi and Joseph in the centres and  Ashton, Goode and Sharples as my back three.  These are of the players currently available for him to pick.

Once the New Year comes around and he is able to make some changes I am hoping to see what I said above :

Youngs, Burns, Twelvetrees, Joseph, May, Ashton and Goode.  Tuilagi as an impact sub.

 Add in players like Wade, Sharples, Sinbad, Eastmond, Biggs, Brown, Foden etc then we have numerous decent choices in the back three.

[paul_e]

England team to face New Zealand: 15. Alex Goode (Saracens, 5 caps); 14. Chris Ashton (Saracens, 28 caps), 13. Manusamoa Tuilagi (Leicester Tigers, 16 caps), 12. Brad Barritt (Saracens, 10 caps), Mike Brown (Harlequins, 10 caps); 10. Owen Farrell (Saracens, 11 caps), 9. Ben Youngs (Leicester Tigers, 27 caps); 1. Alex Corbisiero (London Irish, 17 caps), 2. Tom Youngs (Leicester Tigers, 3 caps), 3. Dan Cole (Leicester Tigers, 34 caps), 4. Joe Launchbury (London Wasps, 3 caps), 5. Geoff Parling (Leicester Tigers, 11 caps), 6. Tom Wood (Northampton Saints, 12 caps), 7. Chris Robshaw (Harlequins, capt, 11 caps), 8. Ben Morgan (Gloucester Rugby, 8 caps)

Replacements: 16. David Paice (London Irish, 5 caps), 17. David Wilson (Bath Rugby, 22 caps), 18. Mako Vunipola (Saracens, 3 caps), 19. Courtney Lawes (Northampton Saints, 14 caps), 20. James Haskell (London Wasps, 44 caps), 21. Danny Care (Harlequins, 36 caps), 22. Freddie Burns (Gloucester Rugby, uncapped), 23. Jonathan Joseph (London Irish, 3 caps)

Team as I feared !!!. 

Firstly the positives, I really do like the look of the pack and they played well last week and should be give an opportunity to build on that.  I guess from what people would percieve as our first choice pack we are missing Hartley, Lawes and Croft from the starting 8.  Add these three in and one or two others and we are starting to get a decent pack of forwards again?

I also love the look of the bench with Lawes, Haskell and Vunipola to bring some power on to the field in the second half.

Negatives :  What a thoroughly depressing set of backs that is?.  It has got very little going for it in my eyes and I can't quite believe we have gone through the entire Autumn series and picked Barritt and Tuilagi every single game?. 

This team is set up, in a McLeish type way, of damage limitation and going out there not too lose, as opposed to trying to win.  If Farrell is the answer then goodness only knows what the question is.  He can't get a game at 10 for Sarries, so why in heavens name is he being picked in that position for England?.  Ashton and Brown may as well come and sit with me in the North Stand, because I have as much chance of getting a pass as them.

I really hope I am proven wrong and we will "give it a lash" on Saturday, but I just can't see it.  I think it's a team picked to try and keep the ball and hope to sneak 4/5 pens and win 15/9 or something.  I hope if Burns and JJ come on, we aren't too far adrift so that they won't have a chance to influence matters.

He clearly feels manu and barritt is working.  That's what scares me the most.

Bold bit. - The most depressing thing is that Farrell, a guy totally out of his depth at international level who's only real value is as an american football style special team kicker, has been shortlisted for the irb player of the year, it's about as shocking a choice as I can imagine.  This is a guy who has clear flaws in his game and can't get a start without an injury in his position.

[cheltenhamlion]

I haven't updated you lately. Stourbridge turned over second placed Hull Ionians last week to record another try bonus point win. The same as every other game this season.

[cheltenhamlion]

Popped into the office this morning so back in time for the England game. Farrell is kicking like shit at the moment but the Kiwis are worse!

[cheltenhamlion]

Carter has just shelled a simple looking kick.

[cheltenhamlion]

3-0 England. They look a bit rattled at the minute the All Blacks. It will never last.