Rugby Union 2012/13

[Dave Summers]

First chance I have had to get on here since I came back from the game on Saturday.  Amazing how differently you see a game when you are there and then when you watch a re-run on the TV?.  It was a decent performance but as you have said up above, I think we left at least 4/5 tries out there. 

Forwards went well, big kudos to Tom Youngs who nailed every line out and his hands were brilliant in the loose.  Will be a great impact sub when Hartley comes back in.  Cole's work at rucktime for a prop is something to behold, he has to be the Lions tight head in Australia surely?.  Was very impressed with Launchbury when he came on and would like to think he and Lawes will form a decent pair of Locks in time.   At the game I thought that Waldrom was poor, he was slightly better than I thought when I watched it on the re-run but the amount of times we lost control at the base of the scrum was poor.  I really want Ben Morgan to be re-instated and given a decent run.  Robshaw led well and I thought Johnson was good too.

In the backs I thought the yellow was fair enough on Care at the time, not sure now and Flood was steady as usual.  I think for an International centre Tuilagi's hands are absolutely shocking and he has no idea of how to draw a man and give a pass.  He has too play, but not sure whether it should be 12 or even wing.   Barritt had a steady game but I think Joseph should come back in as soon as possible.   Said earlier that I thought Monye was a good choice, totally wrong on that.  He is a crap finisher isn't he?.  Sharples showed him how it was done on Saturday and should stay in the team for the Australia game.

Finally, well played Alex Goode.  Was comfortably man of the match and he is just a serioulsly fine full back.  When Foden is fit, I think he will have to play wing because Goode has nailed the 15 spot.  The fact he comes in as second receiver and has a kicking game, is a big plus too.

Another top day out on Saturday, big kudos as well to my mate who necked 9 pints of Guinness in 90 mins before the game, to provide us with more entertainment.   I am looking forward to doing it all again this Saturday

[lovejoy]

I think any reasonable person would retain Sharples in the team over Moyne. However I think Sharples will be dropped. I also think Englands centres are too similar. You need one battering ram and one creator. Tuilagi is just a big lump.
I saw a kid of about 14 chucking his guts up near the north stand toilets at half time, we've all been there but perhaps not in front of 10,000 people!

[paul_e]

Dave - I agree totally with you on waldrom, during the game I thought he was really poor at times, but on the highlights it was just that his good work was all the dirty stuff and the showy stuff he normally does well just didn't happen, still carried well though.  Robshaw and Johnson were ok but nothing more for me.  Says everything about Robshaw as a 7 that Cole is easily our best player around the breakdown.

I'm fairly convinced we're currently a world class 7 away from having a seriously good squad going towards the 2015 world cup, we're a bit one dimensional in the backs but by then I'd expect Burns and Joseph to be established in the squad to give us that spark, and surely May and Wade will be in the squad then as well.  The only other change would be that I expect Robson to get into the squad at 9.

Front row we need Vunipola to step then we'll have cole, marler, corbisiero and him as props with hartley and youngs between them, which should be competitive.

Parling, Launchbury, Lawes and Kitchener gives us a strong 2nd row and of those only Parling hasn't played a fair amount at back row as well, so they've all got ability in the loose.

At 8 morgan is an excellent prospect who should get better and better, but we haven't had a viable alternative show up yet.  Waldrom is good but I think he's probably getting past his best already, so I'd be suprised if he's playing at the level in 3 years time.   I'm optimistic of Billy Vunipola making the step up though, he's an absolute beast, just needs experience and stamina.

At 6 we've got the strongest set in the world.  Tom Johnson started and he's probably 5th choice (behind croft, wood, haskell and robshaw) and then you've got Gaskell coming through and looking very much ready to make the step up.

But at 7... we're playing Robshaw out of position, Stefon Armitage has a black mark after failing to step up a few years back (deserves another shot though as he's far better domestically now than he was then) and then we have Matt Kvesic who has bags of potential but is being ruined by Worcester using him as a utility back row rather than a specialist 7 (which is the same problem we have with a number of others who've looked capable).  Such a shame Tom Rees had his injuries, he'd have been so important for us.

[PaulWinch again]

I think any reasonable person would retain Sharples in the team over Moyne. However I think Sharples will be dropped. I also think Englands centres are too similar. You need one battering ram and one creator. Tuilagi is just a big lump.
I saw a kid of about 14 chucking his guts up near the north stand toilets at half time, we've all been there but perhaps not in front of 10,000 people!

To be fair Lancaster seems fair and praised Sharples after the game.

[PaulWinch again]

I'm not a big fan of Johnson to be honest, I'd much rather seem Wood playing. Waldrom had earnt his place due to his performances in South Africa, but was poor at the weekend and Morgan should be back in.

[Dave Summers]

Well I have been told that Waldrom is being put forward for interview at the England camp today, which suggests he will be playing No 8 on Saturday. 

I think that Johnson is being treated a tad harshly on here as I thought he was excellent in South Africa and absolutely outstanding for Exeter in Dublin against Leinster and again good last weekend.  That said, I tend to agree that we need to get Wood into the mix sooner rather than later, however he isn't playing that well this year.

I also think that for some reason Robshaw isn't fashionable and people are always trying to think of someone else too take his place?.  Apart from anything else I would suggest he is probably the best captain England have had since Johnson and probably better becuase Johnno's team practically captained itself.  People say he isn't an out and out seven, but he looks fair enough to me both for Quins and England.  I would suggest that he is a good bet, as things stand, to lead the Lions next summer.  Warburton has not been the same since he got sent off and Wales aren't picking their best 7 in Tipuric.  Would back Robshaw against either of the Irish or Scots opensides.

My twitter source, I know I know ;-) seems to think that there will be changes on the wing, Ashton for Monye hopefully. In the back row, so I am deducing that Wood will be in for Johnson and also at lock, wondering if that is Launchbury for Palmer as Lawes playing for Northampton this week.

Finally on the subject of props, I agree we have depth there BUT the props you mentioned are all loosehead.  We NEED to get back up for Cole and apart from Henry Thomas not sure who is coming through.  Not convinced by Wilson at all.

Oh yes, agree on Billy Vunipola as well, get him in over the next 12 months please.

[paul_e]

The problem with robshaw is that he isn't good enough fighting for the ball on the floor.  At 6 you can get away with it so logn as you're a strong tackler and work hard.  A world class 7 needs to turn the ball over, stealing ball is so so important now that most top sides are great at recycling, you need to punish mistakes and Robshaw doesn't do it.  Armitage is excellent at it and hence should be in the squad.  The difficulty is that Robshaw, like our other 6s has great skills around the park so it's easy to want to keep him at 7 but I think he'll hold us back at the very top level.

Prop - I thought M.Vunipola played both sides, I might be wrong though.  I had him in mind as covering for Cole.  The problem with tight heads is that they tend to come through later, so you won't see any under 25-26 getting into premiership sides (even Cole was genuinely an understudy to castro until the last year or 2).

Johnson - not being harsh at all, it's purely that, with all being fully fit, he's probably 5th choice (I wouldn't want to pick between croft, wood and robshaw for 1st though).  It's also important to note that he's the oldest in the group as well (although haskell might be around the same age as him).

[PaulWinch again]

Croft is a cracking player as well, and will boost the squad when he's back.

[Dave Summers]

I don't think Robshaw is big enough to play at 6 or at 8 and openside is his best position.  We do have quite a number of riches in the back row and I can't escape the thought that maybe the back row most people would like to see is Croft, Wood and Morgan?.  For me though, as stated above, Robshaw is virtually the first name on the teamsheet at the moment.  Let's see how he gets on in these next three weeks for a better idea of his quality as an international openside flanker.

[paul_e]

I don't think Robshaw is big enough to play at 6 or at 8 and openside is his best position.  We do have quite a number of riches in the back row and I can't escape the thought that maybe the back row most people would like to see is Croft, Wood and Morgan?.  For me though, as stated above, Robshaw is virtually the first name on the teamsheet at the moment.  Let's see how he gets on in these next three weeks for a better idea of his quality as an international openside flanker.

I'd actually like to see Wood, Armitage, Morgan.  Wood and Croft wouldn't be able to play together as they both like to do the same things, I just think Wood has better hands.

Armitage needs another look.  He's been voted the top14 player of the year for last season, that easily the msot competitive league in europe currently so clearly he's playing well and his strength is exactly what England (and english teams in general) have struggled with in recent years, breaking up the steady, forward-based, rumbling attacks that go on for lots and lots of phases.  The bottom line is, If he was playing like he is for an english side he'd be in the team.

I do agree that Robshaw is the best option we have (given the selection criteria) though and I agree he's done a very good job as captain and doesn't deserve to be dropped, which makes it all the more difficult.  He played 6 when he was younger and developed as a 6, and even came into the quins side at 6 before moving across and that is very evident, he plays very much like a 6 playing on the wrong side, where he hangs off and takes a defensive cover position.

Ideally you want 7 or 13 to be the 2nd man to the tackle (for or against) with their job being to secure possession, neither of our 7 or 13 are good at that (Barritt is excellent at it, as he is in all defensive aspects, but is playing too close to the pack and would be in the way of a proper 7, him and Cole also make up for Robshaw's weakness in that area).

[PaulWinch again]

I see Morgan dropped out of the squad again. Looks like Ashton and Sharples will be the wings which is exciting. I'm also glad to see Botha is dropping down the pecking order, don't rate him at all.

[Dave Summers]

I see Morgan dropped out of the squad again. Looks like Ashton and Sharples will be the wings which is exciting. I'm also glad to see Botha is dropping down the pecking order, don't rate him at all.

Seems as though my twitter source was correct about Waldrom then.  Really hoping that Morgan gets a chance in the remaining two matches.  I'm more upset that Joseph has been released if truth be told, although I expected it,  I really think we need to get him in that team at outside centre and build the rest of the midfield around him.

Would like to see Launchbury start and although as I said above, would be harsh on Johnson, I would like Wood to come into the back row.  I would also start Youngs in this game at scrum half.

Four changes for me then, Ashton, Launchbury, Wood and Youngs. However, I would then say that a bench of Vunipola, Wilson, Paice, Palmer, Johnson, Care, Farrell and Brown doesn't have a lot of game changers if we are behind?.

Lancaster has done heaps correctly in the last 12 months, but there are some tricky decisions to be made over the next 6 months and it will involve leaving some players who have done well for him out.

England by 10 on Saturday

[paul_e]

I see Morgan dropped out of the squad again. Looks like Ashton and Sharples will be the wings which is exciting. I'm also glad to see Botha is dropping down the pecking order, don't rate him at all.

Seems as though my twitter source was correct about Waldrom then.  Really hoping that Morgan gets a chance in the remaining two matches.  I'm more upset that Joseph has been released if truth be told, although I expected it,  I really think we need to get him in that team at outside centre and build the rest of the midfield around him.

Would like to see Launchbury start and although as I said above, would be harsh on Johnson, I would like Wood to come into the back row.  I would also start Youngs in this game at scrum half.

Four changes for me then, Ashton, Launchbury, Wood and Youngs. However, I would then say that a bench of Vunipola, Wilson, Paice, Palmer, Johnson, Care, Farrell and Brown doesn't have a lot of game changers if we are behind?.

Lancaster has done heaps correctly in the last 12 months, but there are some tricky decisions to be made over the next 6 months and it will involve leaving some players who have done well for him out.

England by 10 on Saturday

Change that bench to:

Vunipola, Wilson, HARTLEY, LAWES, Johnson, Care, BURNS and JOSEPH

and it looks fantastic

[PaulWinch again]

I see Morgan dropped out of the squad again. Looks like Ashton and Sharples will be the wings which is exciting. I'm also glad to see Botha is dropping down the pecking order, don't rate him at all.

Seems as though my twitter source was correct about Waldrom then.  Really hoping that Morgan gets a chance in the remaining two matches.  I'm more upset that Joseph has been released if truth be told, although I expected it,  I really think we need to get him in that team at outside centre and build the rest of the midfield around him.

Would like to see Launchbury start and although as I said above, would be harsh on Johnson, I would like Wood to come into the back row.  I would also start Youngs in this game at scrum half.

Four changes for me then, Ashton, Launchbury, Wood and Youngs. However, I would then say that a bench of Vunipola, Wilson, Paice, Palmer, Johnson, Care, Farrell and Brown doesn't have a lot of game changers if we are behind?.

Lancaster has done heaps correctly in the last 12 months, but there are some tricky decisions to be made over the next 6 months and it will involve leaving some players who have done well for him out.

England by 10 on Saturday

Change that bench to:

Vunipola, Wilson, HARTLEY, LAWES, Johnson, Care, BURNS and JOSEPH

and it looks fantastic

Indeed and a bench capable of making an impact is vital.

[PaulWinch again]

Ashton is the only change for the game. Not overly surprised, would have liked to see Wood and Morgan in but overall pretty happy.