Lance Armstrong to be stripped of Tour de France titles and banned for life

[Ad@m]

Dunno why the Feds were involved, enlighten me.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/cycling/lance-armstrong-federal-case-is-closed-as-us-attorneys-office-ends-probe/2012/02/03/gIQARWk5nQ_story.html

[danlanza]

FACT. look up the IAAF list of banned drugs and then Lucozade,Coca Cola........ETC and you will be shocked.

I have, can't find bugger all.
Caffeine IS a banned substance but you would probably need to drink a dozen cases of the Red Bull to be over the limit, can't see that being particularly performance enhancing before a race!
Taurine isn't banned but is on the 'impermissible' list, not recommended but not banned. Couldn't see owt else in the ingredients that WADA has banned.
Lucozade is specifically ON WADA's list of recommended hydration drinks.
Fuck knows what's in Coke though, in fact I'm not sure I want to know, evil stuff that is!

You will see on You Tube what Cola DOES TO A STEAK, Nuff said. And by the way, if you look at all the products i mentioned you will see Massive amounts of caffeine in all of them mate. Banned substance, and cola stays in your blood stream longer than Heroin,Coke, and Weed-fact. So if you are an Athlete,( Proffesional) and you consume a litre of Cola-no particular brand, that is detectibal in your blood for at least 3 months-another fact. Their diet is so strict it is virtual bloody starvation and certain "Products" are of line,always. That is how these guys have to live. I live in Lanzarote, the hub of training grounds for GrandPrx drivers,Athletes, Tri Atletes,Tour de France Winners and the England Rugby Union squad, and they all stay away from Caffeine and all the rest of the shite,when they leave a bar they have a full sheet filled in by their personal dietician of what they have drunk. Fact.

[Dave Cooper please]

Thanks. So dropped mainly because precedents in the cases of baseball players failed to produce enough evidence that doping in sport is a federal offence, and not enough evidence to suggest he was also a supplier.

[paul_e]

FACT. look up the IAAF list of banned drugs and then Lucozade,Coca Cola........ETC and you will be shocked.

I have, can't find bugger all.
Caffeine IS a banned substance but you would probably need to drink a dozen cases of the Red Bull to be over the limit, can't see that being particularly performance enhancing before a race!
Taurine isn't banned but is on the 'impermissible' list, not recommended but not banned. Couldn't see owt else in the ingredients that WADA has banned.
Lucozade is specifically ON WADA's list of recommended hydration drinks.
Fuck knows what's in Coke though, in fact I'm not sure I want to know, evil stuff that is!

You will see on You Tube what Cola DOES TO A STEAK, Nuff said. And by the way, if you look at all the products i mentioned you will see Massive amounts of caffeine in all of them mate. Banned substance, and cola stays in your blood stream longer than Heroin,Coke, and Weed-fact. So if you are an Athlete,( Proffesional) and you consume a litre of Cola-no particular brand, that is detectibal in your blood for at least 3 months-another fact. Their diet is so strict it is virtual bloody starvation and certain "Products" are of line,always. That is how these guys have to live. I live in Lanzarote, the hub of training grounds for GrandPrx drivers,Athletes, Tri Atletes,Tour de France Winners and the England Rugby Union squad, and they all stay away from Caffeine and all the rest of the shite,when they leave a bar they have a full sheet filled in by their personal dietician of what they have drunk. Fact.

Stop saying "FACT" - it adds no credibility to the argument and is really annoying.

[Dave Cooper please]

You will see on You Tube what Cola DOES TO A STEAK, Nuff said. And by the way, if you look at all the products i mentioned you will see Massive amounts of caffeine in all of them mate. Banned substance, and cola stays in your blood stream longer than Heroin,Coke, and Weed-fact. So if you are an Athlete,( Proffesional) and you consume a litre of Cola-no particular brand, that is detectibal in your blood for at least 3 months-another fact. Their diet is so strict it is virtual bloody starvation and certain "Products" are of line,always. That is how these guys have to live. I live in Lanzarote, the hub of training grounds for GrandPrx drivers,Athletes, Tri Atletes,Tour de France Winners and the England Rugby Union squad, and they all stay away from Caffeine and all the rest of the shite,when they leave a bar they have a full sheet filled in by their personal dietician of what they have drunk. Fact.

You missed the link above that I put on that Red Bull (contains more caffeine than Coke...errr...FACT) has been passed as fine by the body that tests products for banned substances then? I assume that even though caffeine is actually banned you would need to drink so much coke or red bull that your internal organs would implode before you actually got any performance enhancing out of it!
 I would have thought athletes avoid cola because it's fucking shite for an athlete's finely honed body rather than for the fear of failing a drug test.

[Eckybloke]

But the balance of the evidence seen to date suggests he's not guilty.

According to you.

And the UCI.  And the US federal police.  And the hundreds of people who carried out drugs tests on him for the past 15 years.

Just because a test hadn't/hasn't been devised for a certain method of doping doesn't mean the doping doesn't exist so don't hang any hat on the fact he never failed a drugs test.

http://www.cyclismas.com/2012/07/the-legend-of-the-500/

[Ad@m]

But the balance of the evidence seen to date suggests he's not guilty.

According to you.

And the UCI.  And the US federal police.  And the hundreds of people who carried out drugs tests on him for the past 15 years.

Just because a test hadn't/hasn't been devised for a certain method of doping doesn't mean the doping doesn't exist so don't hang any hat on the fact he never failed a drugs test.

There's no hat hanging going on and I haven't said he's definitely innocent.  All I've consistently said is that I don't see that there's enough/any reliable evidence to justify finding him guilty.

[Dave Cooper please]

There's no hat hanging going on and I haven't said he's definitely innocent.  All I've consistently said is that I don't see that there's enough/any reliable evidence to justify finding him guilty.

But by refusing to answer USADA's allegations he is effectively saying he is guilty, that's the way it works I'm afraid.
Why has he fought for 20+ years against every allegation only to give up now? Because he is tired and fed up? Well as a multimillionaire I'm sure it must be desperately tiring taking a daily phone call from your team of top notch lawyers who are doing all the work.
Or maybe it's because he has had the nod that USADA do have something damning, and to drop it all now will at least give him some sort of moral high ground among his supporters?

[Ad@m]

There's no hat hanging going on and I haven't said he's definitely innocent.  All I've consistently said is that I don't see that there's enough/any reliable evidence to justify finding him guilty.

But by refusing to answer USADA's allegations he is effectively saying he is guilty, that's the way it works I'm afraid.
Why has he fought for 20+ years against every allegation only to give up now? Because he is tired and fed up? Well as a multimillionaire I'm sure it must be desperately tiring taking a daily phone call from your team of top notch lawyers who are doing all the work.
Or maybe it's because he has had the nod that USADA do have something damning, and to drop it all now will at least give him some sort of moral high ground among his supporters?

You're basically arguing that there's no smoke without fire which we all know is a load of rubbish.

We can both put forward lots of plausible explanations to support both conclusions but the one thing that's missing is any irrefutible evidence that he's guilty.  Yet he's been declared guilty.

I'll say it again, if this was in any other scenario (the Army aside) you'd be up in arms over this.

[Eckybloke]

There's no hat hanging going on and I haven't said he's definitely innocent.  All I've consistently said is that I don't see that there's enough/any reliable evidence to justify finding him guilty.

I think that given his absolute willingness to previously lawyer up at every potential opportunity in defence of an allegation and his continuously referring to never having failed a drugs test the fact he has given up is to most people an admission of guilt and by refusing to mount a defence allows the scenario where no-one will ever stand in a court and say "The defendant doped his way to 7 Tour wins".  A refusal to defend is the least-worst option available.

If he was absolutely not guilty, given the reputational damage to him and Livestrong, I find it unlikely that he wouldn't have loved his days in court.

[Eckybloke]

FACT. look up the IAAF list of banned drugs and then Lucozade,Coca Cola........ETC and you will be shocked.

Look up the list, and then a list of ingredients for poppy seed rolls.  A couple of those will fail you a drugs test too but no-one's saying athletes aren't allowed poppy seed rolls for breakfast.

[Eckybloke]

I have, can't find bugger all.
Caffeine IS a banned substance but you would probably need to drink a dozen cases of the Red Bull to be over the limit, can't see that being particularly performance enhancing before a race!

You sure about caffeine?  This is part of the regulations:

*
The following substances included in the 2012 Monitoring Program (bupropion,
caffeine, nicotine, phenylephrine, phenylpropanolamine, pipradol, synephrine) are
not considered as Prohibited Substances.

So a pre-Alpe D'Huez double espresso should be fine and dandy. 

 

[Dave Cooper please]

I'll say it again, if this was in any other scenario (the Army aside) you'd be up in arms over this.

Why would I?
I don't see how this goes against anything I post on here, I don't like cheats, I don't like bullies and I hate to see corrupt individuals getting on in any walk of life.
If Armstrong has cheated his way to seven wins in a sporting event that I think is right up there with the greatest in the World I want to know, and we were about to find out, but Armstrong has bottled it. Luckily USADA are going to tell us anyway I hope.
You like to pigeonhole people don't you? Maybe some of us have more open minds than you give us credit for.

[RunRickyRun]

But the balance of the evidence seen to date suggests he's not guilty.

According to you.

And the UCI.  And the US federal police.  And the hundreds of people who carried out drugs tests on him for the past 15 years.

Just because a test hadn't/hasn't been devised for a certain method of doping doesn't mean the doping doesn't exist so don't hang any hat on the fact he never failed a drugs test.

http://www.cyclismas.com/2012/07/the-legend-of-the-500/

Indeed. 6 of Lance's urine samples from the '99 tour tested positive for EPO (source). The tests were carried out retrospectively because there was no test for EPO in '99 (it was developed for the Sydney Olympics). They do not constitute a 'failed' drugs test because there are no B samples.

He's not 'failed' a drugs test but performance enhancing drugs have been found in his urine (several times) when he was competing.

[Ad@m]

But the balance of the evidence seen to date suggests he's not guilty.

According to you.

And the UCI.  And the US federal police.  And the hundreds of people who carried out drugs tests on him for the past 15 years.

Just because a test hadn't/hasn't been devised for a certain method of doping doesn't mean the doping doesn't exist so don't hang any hat on the fact he never failed a drugs test.

http://www.cyclismas.com/2012/07/the-legend-of-the-500/

Indeed. 6 of Lance's urine samples from the '99 tour tested positive for EPO (source). The tests were carried out retrospectively because there was no test for EPO in '99 (it was developed for the Sydney Olympics). They do not constitute a 'failed' drugs test because there are no B samples.

He's not 'failed' a drugs test but performance enhancing drugs have been found in his urine (several times) when he was competing.
[/quot

But the EPO test isn't failsafe either. A Belgian triathlete got banned in 2005 for EPO use and the ban was subsequently overturned.

As I keep saying, there just isn't enough evidence here to decide someone is guilty. A disproportionate amount of weight is being given to the words of disgruntled ex-teammates.