Lance Armstrong to be stripped of Tour de France titles and banned for life

[Jon Crofts]

That said, seems an odd decision to give up, it's not like the guy is a quitter.

No, just drugged up to the eyeballs.

Allegedly

[Dave Cooper please]

That said, seems an odd decision to give up, it's not like the guy is a quitter.

No, just drugged up to the eyeballs.

Allegedly

This isn't Not the Nine O'Clock News you know.

[Dave Cooper please]

Nobody really comes out with much credit do they?

If Armstrong tested negative when tested over the years, that either means he's clean, or he was taking something that was untraceable at the time.  If the latter, had would the drugs agency prove it, unless they had sworn statements from people who administered the drugs for example?

Floyd Landis has openly said that he saw Armstrong doping at the same time he was doing it, George Hincapie has been subpoenaed to appear as Landis has named him as being there as well, okay these are cyclists who may or may not hold grudges. I don't know if any doctors have come forward, I guess we'll soon find out.
 The most damning evidence against him could well be if USADA have obtained paper trails of alleged bribes to the UCI to cover up positive tests and also if Armstrong did actually purchase banned substances, which USADA have hinted that they have evidence of. In one case it is alleged that he altered a prescription for a drug to treat saddle sores to obtain illegal subtances.

 Most damning for me is the fact that despite improvements in bikes and equipment and the ultra-professionalism of bike racers these days, no-one can get anywhere near the speeds that Armstrong and his cohorts were doing up those mountains.

[Yossarian]

In 2003 who won the Tour de France? Lance Armstrong who finished first but was a drugs cheat? Jan Ulrich who finished second but was a drugs cheat? Alexandre Vinokourov who finished third but was a drugs cheat? Tyler Hamilton who finished fourth but was a drugs cheat? How far can they go down the list before they find someone who was clean?

[Ad@m]

I also thought it seemed implausible, especially as before his illness he never looked like getting close.

However, the only 'evidence' USADA have is the comments of a collection of people who may or may not have alterior motives.  I find it very unsettling to strip someone of such a fantastic achievement on the back of hearsay or because it's seems a bit unlikely.

If that were the case we'd be banning every single person who breaks a world record in every discipline.

 But in Armstrong's case he has chosen not to contest the allegations. It's fairly consistent across most sports these days that if you choose not to contest drug allegations, or fail to supply a sample, or not be where you say you will be for a test etc. etc. you are effectively guilty of a drug offence.

He's been denying allegations for over a decade.  In his owns words he's just had enough of it.

I also imagine that since he stopped competitive cycling his income is nowhere near what it was and fighting this through the courts must be costing a fortune.  He might just have decided to cut his financial losses if he thinks the USADA won't let go.

I think it's also important to appreciate that the UCI, who have been responsible for banning all the other cycling drugs cheats, have said he doesn't have a case to answer and they don't agree with the USADA's approach.

There are some pretty big holes in the USADA's case (like the absence of any positive drugs test despite him probably being the most tested cyclist ever given his success and the time period it took place during) and it seems more than a little unsettling to me that he can be hounded for so long until he effectively gives up and then by default he's treated as being guilty.

And on the subject of the tests, Tour de France winners before him failed drugs tests.  Winners after him failed drugs tests.  How likely is it that only he knew how to take performance enhancing drugs that didn't trigger a test?

[Ad@m]

The most damning evidence against him could well be if USADA have obtained paper trails of alleged bribes to the UCI to cover up positive tests and also if Armstrong did actually purchase banned substances, which USADA have hinted that they have evidence of. In one case it is alleged that he altered a prescription for a drug to treat saddle sores to obtain illegal subtances.

You're absolutely right.  But that's because what you've described above is actual evidence.  But if the USADA had all this why haven't they published it before now?

[Broughty-Villian]

USADA have also PAID witnesses to provide evidence that LA was taking PED's.

Don't think thats right either.

Ill be dissapointed IF he is proven to be a doper.

[RunRickyRun]

Some pretty damning stuff here

[PaulWinch again]

It's very interesting, I'll be curious to see all this evidence come out. If it does then he deserves to have everything stripped from his legacy, other than his cancer charity of course which has done great work.

[ExclDawg]

Here's Armstrong's official response:

AUSTIN, Texas - August 23rd, 2012 - There comes a point in every man's life when he has to say, "Enough is enough." For me, that time is now. I have been dealing with claims that I cheated and had an unfair advantage in winning my seven Tours since 1999. Over the past three years, I have been subjected to a two-year federal criminal investigation followed by Travis Tygart's unconstitutional witch hunt. The toll this has taken on my family, and my work for our foundation and on me leads me to where I am today – finished with this nonsense.

I had hoped that a federal court would stop USADA’s charade. Although the court was sympathetic to my concerns and recognized the many improprieties and deficiencies in USADA’s motives, its conduct, and its process, the court ultimately decided that it could not intervene.

If I thought for one moment that by participating in USADA’s process, I could confront these allegations in a fair setting and – once and for all – put these charges to rest, I would jump at the chance. But I refuse to participate in a process that is so one-sided and unfair. Regardless of what Travis Tygart says, there is zero physical evidence to support his outlandish and heinous claims. The only physical evidence here is the hundreds of controls I have passed with flying colors. I made myself available around the clock and around the world. In-competition. Out of competition. Blood. Urine. Whatever they asked for I provided. What is the point of all this testing if, in the end, USADA will not stand by it?

From the beginning, however, this investigation has not been about learning the truth or cleaning up cycling, but about punishing me at all costs. I am a retired cyclist, yet USADA has lodged charges over 17 years old despite its own 8-year limitation. As respected organizations such as UCI and USA Cycling have made clear, USADA lacks jurisdiction even to bring these charges. The international bodies governing cycling have ordered USADA to stop, have given notice that no one should participate in USADA’s improper proceedings, and have made it clear the pronouncements by USADA that it has banned people for life or stripped them of their accomplishments are made without authority. And as many others, including USADA’s own arbitrators, have found, there is nothing even remotely fair about its process. USADA has broken the law, turned its back on its own rules, and stiff-armed those who have tried to persuade USADA to honor its obligations. At every turn, USADA has played the role of a bully, threatening everyone in its way and challenging the good faith of anyone who questions its motives or its methods, all at U.S. taxpayers’ expense. For the last two months, USADA has endlessly repeated the mantra that there should be a single set of rules, applicable to all, but they have arrogantly refused to practice what they preach. On top of all that, USADA has allegedly made deals with other riders that circumvent their own rules as long as they said I cheated. Many of those riders continue to race today.

The bottom line is I played by the rules that were put in place by the UCI, WADA and USADA when I raced. The idea that athletes can be convicted today without positive A and B samples, under the same rules and procedures that apply to athletes with positive tests, perverts the system and creates a process where any begrudged ex-teammate can open a USADA case out of spite or for personal gain or a cheating cyclist can cut a sweetheart deal for themselves. It’s an unfair approach, applied selectively, in opposition to all the rules. It’s just not right.

USADA cannot assert control of a professional international sport and attempt to strip my seven Tour de France titles. I know who won those seven Tours, my teammates know who won those seven Tours, and everyone I competed against knows who won those seven Tours. We all raced together. For three weeks over the same roads, the same mountains, and against all the weather and elements that we had to confront. There were no shortcuts, there was no special treatment. The same courses, the same rules. The toughest event in the world where the strongest man wins. Nobody can ever change that. Especially not Travis Tygart.

Today I turn the page. I will no longer address this issue, regardless of the circumstances. I will commit myself to the work I began before ever winning a single Tour de France title: serving people and families affected by cancer, especially those in underserved communities. This October, my Foundation will celebrate 15 years of service to cancer survivors and the milestone of raising nearly $500 million. We have a lot of work to do and I'm looking forward to an end to this pointless distraction. I have a responsibility to all those who have stepped forward to devote their time and energy to the cancer cause. I will not stop fighting for that mission. Going forward, I am going to devote myself to raising my five beautiful (and energetic) kids, fighting cancer, and attempting to be the fittest 40-year old on the planet.

[bertlambshank]

I thought this wasn't about doping but more to do with 'blood swapping'.

[ExclDawg]

I thought this wasn't about doping but more to do with 'blood swapping'.

That's among the things they do.  Blood Doping is where they pull red-blood cells from your body and freeze it ... wait a few months, then reinject it, so you have a larger concentration of blood cells to hold oxygen.

EPO is a hormone that you take that stimulates blood cell growth, and is also the center of the allegations.  Everyone says he took it in 1999 when they didn't have a test for it ... yet his results didn't see to drop off too dramatically the next couple of years.

Then there's the usually steroids, uppers, etc.  The thing is, I think he doped, but it was more of a "soft doping".  There are legal limits set for most of the things they test for ... and almost all these athletes come right up to the limit when they test for this stuff.  I don't necessarily think that should be "wrong". 

I think that's why he says stuff like "I played by the rules that were put in place by the UCI, WADA and USADA when I raced." ... rather than, "I never took anything".  Basically because he DID abide by the rules that said you couldn't go over a certain amount of a testable substance.

The USADA is an embarassment though ... They are basically just trying to throw their weight around and have gone on a multi-year vendetta against a single guy for no apparent reason.  I don't see how they can strip his Tours away ... and they shouldn't.  Especially since Riis, Ullrich, Pantani and Contador all still have their titles ... and they've actually failed tests.

[OzVilla]

In 2003 who won the Tour de France? Lance Armstrong who finished first but was a drugs cheat? Jan Ulrich who finished second but was a drugs cheat? Alexandre Vinokourov who finished third but was a drugs cheat? Tyler Hamilton who finished fourth but was a drugs cheat? How far can they go down the list before they find someone who was clean?

Assuming we're talking about the same year they're claiming here you have to go down to 8th - Cadel Evans.

[Dave Cooper please]

I think it's also important to appreciate that the UCI, who have been responsible for banning all the other cycling drugs cheats, have said he doesn't have a case to answer and they don't agree with the USADA's approach.

The same UCI that accepted a six-figure donation from Armstrong (the only cyclist to have ever had a donation accepted), and don't forget that Armstrong almost single-handedly raised the profile of cycling worldwide. As much as USADA may have a vendetta against Armstrong, the UCI has as many reasons to defend him.

There are some pretty big holes in the USADA's case (like the absence of any positive drugs test despite him probably being the most tested cyclist ever given his success and the time period it took place during) and it seems more than a little unsettling to me that he can be hounded for so long until he effectively gives up and then by default he's treated as being guilty.

He's the most successful cyclist since Eddy Mercx, and he may have achieved this by cheating, it's a massive case. If USADA think they have the evidence (and we'll soon see) then why wouldn't they pursue it with vigour?

And on the subject of the tests, Tour de France winners before him failed drugs tests.  Winners after him failed drugs tests.  How likely is it that only he knew how to take performance enhancing drugs that didn't trigger a test?

It wasn't just him, as I mentioned before, Floyd Landis and others are now openly admitting that they passed countless drug tests either by using drugs not yet tested for or doping right up to the allowed limits. The EPO limit was 50%, an amount that now seems incredulous considering it should only be found in trace amounts naturally. Landis was only caught when he won the TDF because he was stupid, he blew up on a mountain stage losing minutes, the next day he won another mountain stage with such an incredible performance that no one could take it seriously, he overstepped the Peleton's and the UCI's agreed doping limits by a long way.

[Ad@m]

But Landis failed a drugs test.

Armstrong is almost certainly the most tested cyclist in history but has never failed a test.  Given how many successful cyclists have failed tests I find it astonishing that he could have been doping for as long as USADA assert yet hasn't failed a single one.

That's even more implausible than his success.