Sell Bent?

[pauliewalnuts]

We wouldn't. We'd get Kenwynne Jones in, that's the kind of financial reality we're dealing with. Given that, whilst appreciating Bent's weaknesses, I'd much much rather we tried to do something about giving him the ball than selling him and watching the squad devalue even more.

Was Jones at Sunderland with Bent?

I almost feel dirty for saying this but if they've played together before I wouldn't mind us taking a punt on Jones now.  In theory it should work with Jones winning flick ons for Bent to run on to but I'm slightly nervous by virtue of the fact I've always thought Kenwyne Jones is a waste of space.

I wouldn't necessarily disagree with that - Jones to partner Bent - but I fear that if we sold Bent, we'd end up with Jones as his replacement.

Which makes me start to feel my mouth fill with bile.

What makes you think Lambert would buy Jones.  None of his signings to date indicate that he'd go down the O'Neill route of paying massively over the odds for average British based players.

He said last week that he thought he was a really good player.

I also doubt he'd have to pay over the odds for him, either, to be honest.

[adrenachrome]

If Bent looked like he was trying, it wouldn't be so bad. However, he ambles around, waiting for the ball to roll into the goal area with only the keeper to beat. N'Zogbia is still blaming McLeish for his own lack of delivery. He is supposed to be providing the 'service' but has a huge chip on his shoulder. I don't think Bent has the same attitude as N'Zogbia, but I just don't think he will become the player we want him to be.
Sell N'Zogbia -yes, but who will buy him?

Sunderland would be my bet.

He (N'Zogbia) is one of the biggest disappointments in years. I can't believe the difference between what we see and what Wigan had.

He just looks devoid of any clue as to what to do when he gets the ball. Shocking.

My mate's a big Wigan fan and was a coach there (under Bruce) before he got cancer.  He reckons that what we've got isn't a lot different to what Wigan had, it's just that he shone in a few games in Wigan's usual end of season flourish.  Other than that he was a one good game in five kind of player.

We must be due a lot of good games then!!!

If we come up against a team that does not try to stop him from playing, he can be very good. Arsenal at home last season is a case in point: the Arse attitude being, if you want to play football let's do it, and we will win. Most prem teams found out how to shut Ash down when playing us, and they find Zog easy meat by comparison.

 

[curiousorange]

I don't watch a lot of Stoke City (like Stoke fans, judging by their comments about wonderful football under Pulis) but I do wonder if people have the wrong idea about Kenwyne Jones, like they did about Crouch. I reckon Pulis bought him in as a typical 'get your head on that, son' striker but Jones's game isn't just about that, hence him and Bent working well together. I figure by the time Crouch was bought in to start the long, long process of Stoke stepping out of the dark ages, Jones was frozen out.

Can anyone tell me if that deduction's wrong? Because if we get him as Bent's partner, maybe it's not the end of the world

[ozzjim]

All I know about Bent and Jones was Bent saying he is the best partner he has had to play with.

[Brian Taylor]

Get Keane back. A proper footballer who wants to win. No attitude, just go out and win!
Old?? he has years on him yet. Peter Broadbent was 35 when he came to the Villa. Andy Lochead similar. Old duffers who made Villa what it is. Great! Ron Wylie. Derek Dougan, all forgotten now..so s*d off. Keane back NOW!
Stuff the pretence of youth and £100k a week! Just get some goals. Robbie can get them himself and by assist.
Oh dear "I am young and I need time".. we ain't got time! Robbie is the man and desperate to get back to proper football!
Someone tell Lambert to get a proper player in!

[Steve R]

It's a perfectly valid point to raise, and I agree totally with Percy's post.

With regards N'Zogbia and Ireland, I would have said that any other senior pro that Lambert inherited would not be a loss if moved on. The problem is finding buyers.

The difference with Bent is that at least he delivered for half a season. All that tells us is that there may be a case for persevering with him, but if it doesn't work we can be pretty dire.

There is also the point that if we did build a side around Bent, the danger is that opposition only has one problem to solve.

I doubt that we would be able to buy a suitable replacement given our current standing in the pecking order. On the other hand a loan move to buy time would raise interesting possibilities.

If we were, say, to offer Man City the same deal that Spurs had for Adebeyor (75k pw contribution out of the 175k they throw at a player they have no room for), a lot of money would be left over for buying real quality elsewhere. Bent can't be earning that much less than 75k to start with.

That sounds to me like a much better team than we currently have.

[Dave Clark Five]

I would have Kevin Phillips back in place of N'Zogbia. Different position, yes, but doesn't care about that. He just comes on and scores goals and would do so until he draws his pension. A proper footballer. Charles is a mard-arse and we need to be rid of him before September.

[PeterWithesShin]

So the stats for the previous 2 seasons. I'm pretty sure I got this right. Might give a clue to whether we're better with him or without him.

10/11
before Bent PL22 W5 D7 L10 Goals 24 points 22
after   Bent PL16 W7 D5 L4  Goals 24 points 26

11/12
with Bent playing PL22 W6 D9 L7 goals 27 points 27
Bent injured        PL16 W1 D8 L7 goals 10 points 11

So the previous 2 seasons we've actually had a full season of 38 with him and also without him.

With him PL38 W13 D14 L11 Goals 51 Pts 53
Without  PL38 W6  D15 L17 Goals 34 Pts 33

[hawkeye]

If Bent looked like he was trying, it wouldn't be so bad. However, he ambles around, waiting for the ball to roll into the goal area with only the keeper to beat. N'Zogbia is still blaming McLeish for his own lack of delivery. He is supposed to be providing the 'service' but has a huge chip on his shoulder. I don't think Bent has the same attitude as N'Zogbia, but I just don't think he will become the player we want him to be.
Sell N'Zogbia -yes, but who will buy him?

Sunderland would be my bet.

He (N'Zogbia) is one of the biggest disappointments in years. I can't believe the difference between what we see and what Wigan had.

He just looks devoid of any clue as to what to do when he gets the ball. Shocking.

My mate's a big Wigan fan and was a coach there (under Bruce) before he got cancer.  He reckons that what we've got isn't a lot different to what Wigan had, it's just that he shone in a few games in Wigan's usual end of season flourish.  Other than that he was a one good game in five kind of player.

This has been my point regarding Zog, he is judged by Villa fans on his MOTD flashes but if you ask the guys that watched him every week you get to understand his performances for us. The bloke isnt quite right, we bought a pup.

[Brian Taylor]

If Bent looked like he was trying, it wouldn't be so bad. However, he ambles around, waiting for the ball to roll into the goal area with only the keeper to beat. N'Zogbia is still blaming McLeish for his own lack of delivery. He is supposed to be providing the 'service' but has a huge chip on his shoulder. I don't think Bent has the same attitude as N'Zogbia, but I just don't think he will become the player we want him to be.
Sell N'Zogbia -yes, but who will buy him?

Sunderland would be my bet.

He (N'Zogbia) is one of the biggest disappointments in years. I can't believe the difference between what we see and what Wigan had.

He just looks devoid of any clue as to what to do when he gets the ball. Shocking.

My mate's a big Wigan fan and was a coach there (under Bruce) before he got cancer.  He reckons that what we've got isn't a lot different to what Wigan had, it's just that he shone in a few games in Wigan's usual end of season flourish.  Other than that he was a one good game in five kind of player.

This has been my point regarding Zog, he is judged by Villa fans on his MOTD flashes but if you ask the guys that watched him every week you get to understand his performances for us. The bloke isnt quite right, we bought a pup.

So buy a player who lights up the pitch! Keane..Robbie Keane!

[ozzjim]

So the stats for the previous 2 seasons. I'm pretty sure I got this right. Might give a clue to whether we're better with him or without him.

10/11
before Bent PL22 W5 D7 L10 Goals 24 points 22
after   Bent PL16 W7 D5 L4  Goals 24 points 26

11/12
with Bent playing PL22 W6 D9 L7 goals 27 points 27
Bent injured        PL16 W1 D8 L7 goals 10 points 11

So the previous 2 seasons we've actually had a full season of 38 with him and also without him.

With him PL38 W13 D14 L11 Goals 51 Pts 53
Without  PL38 W6  D15 L17 Goals 34 Pts 33

That is quite a stark contrast isn't it.

If we can get the side right to create for him it is far and away the best solution, just brings into focus the issues with Ireland and NZogbia, which are hard to solve as they are not very saleable.

[PeterWithesShin]

So the stats for the previous 2 seasons. I'm pretty sure I got this right. Might give a clue to whether we're better with him or without him.

10/11
before Bent PL22 W5 D7 L10 Goals 24 points 22
after   Bent PL16 W7 D5 L4  Goals 24 points 26

11/12
with Bent playing PL22 W6 D9 L7 goals 27 points 27
Bent injured        PL16 W1 D8 L7 goals 10 points 11

So the previous 2 seasons we've actually had a full season of 38 with him and also without him.

With him PL38 W13 D14 L11 Goals 51 Pts 53
Without  PL38 W6  D15 L17 Goals 34 Pts 33

That is quite a stark contrast isn't it.

If we can get the side right to create for him it is far and away the best solution, just brings into focus the issues with Ireland and NZogbia, which are hard to solve as they are not very saleable.

I was quite surprised. I was expecting it to favour having Bent in the side but not by that much. Contenders for Europe with him, relegated without him. Obviously not quite that straightforward but I found the stats interesting.

[Steve R]

I would have Kevin Phillips back in place of N'Zogbia. Different position, yes, but doesn't care about that. He just comes on and scores goals and would do so until he draws his pension. A proper footballer. Charles is a mard-arse and we need to be rid of him before September.

Kipper Phillips and c. 20 mill in your pocket or Harewood>Heskey.

Tough choice.

[Monty]

So the stats for the previous 2 seasons. I'm pretty sure I got this right. Might give a clue to whether we're better with him or without him.

10/11
before Bent PL22 W5 D7 L10 Goals 24 points 22
after   Bent PL16 W7 D5 L4  Goals 24 points 26

11/12
with Bent playing PL22 W6 D9 L7 goals 27 points 27
Bent injured        PL16 W1 D8 L7 goals 10 points 11

So the previous 2 seasons we've actually had a full season of 38 with him and also without him.

With him PL38 W13 D14 L11 Goals 51 Pts 53
Without  PL38 W6  D15 L17 Goals 34 Pts 33

That is quite a stark contrast isn't it.

If we can get the side right to create for him it is far and away the best solution, just brings into focus the issues with Ireland and NZogbia, which are hard to solve as they are not very saleable.

I was quite surprised. I was expecting it to favour having Bent in the side but not by that much. Contenders for Europe with him, relegated without him. Obviously not quite that straightforward but I found the stats interesting.

True, but I would also argue that since we've had Bent we've essentially had teams set up around him, and considering that's been over the last two years I would suggest that faith in that style may be misplaced. I would still suggest Bent can actually adapt, but the adaptation should be that way round: Bent to team, not team to Bent.

[PeterWithesShin]

Regardless of how the team is set up, over the last 2 years we've done a lot better when Bent is in the team than out of it. The team wasn't set up for him in the 38 games he didn't play and it did a lot worse.

I posted the stats as some folks reckoned we'd score more and do better without him so I was curious how we did over the last 2 years. It's spookily ideal that over that time we played 38 with him in the side and 38 without.