Simple poll - OGS vs Lambert

[Billy Walker]

Youth, ambition, intelligence, freshness, expectation of success rather than mediocrity, total fucking absence of baggage.

Lambert is a good manager, but not an exciting one. I want following the Villa to be exciting, I don't think it's too much to ask

I think that sums it up for me.

Youth, intelligence and expectation of success?  Why not Neil Lennon?  There's quite a few managers out there that have these qualities and they all have the one thing OGS lacks - experience.

Absence of baggage?  If you thought Houllier had Liverpool baggage, OGS's man utd baggage seems ten times worse.  I watched the mutv film of him last night and he is totally immersed in all things man utd.  His kid supports man utd, his dream is to manage man utd, his coaching staff are all man utd.  Yes, I know it was a man utd film, but that doesn't take the baggage away.  We will have a walking, talking advert for man utd strolling along the corridors and green fields of Bodymoor should we lose all sense of proportion and common sense and appoint the man.

I have seen absolutely no evidence to suggest OGS has the credentials to turn around a huge Premier League club.  Posters on forums have argued the point that they can't explain why OGS would be a good appointment and they base their view on it being a "hunch" or that it "feels right".  Well, I'm not sure that is reason enough to make an absolute novice our manager. 

People have also suggested that appointing a novice didn't exactly do Arsenal or Barcelona any harm.  Wenger was a manager for twelve years before getting the Arsenal job.  Guardiola, though a novice, was totally immersed and up to speed in the club he was taking over.  Not only that but the club he was taking over was full of some of the world's greatest players.  Guardiola also lives and breathes Barcelona, they are his club.  None of these factors would apply to OGS if he were to get the Villa job.

For me - and I'm a glass half full person, believe me - OGS would be such a naive, horrifically poor appointment that I seriously question whether we would be a Premier League club come this time next year.  My hunch and feeling is that we are pinning our hopes on a man who has less senior managerial experience than a certain Graham Turner all those years ago.  Imagine Graham Turner infused with the man utd/sir alex fixation of a Steve Bruce and I believe you will get some picture of the carnage that I believe awaits us.

For me this OGS episode highlights the dangers of the internet(!) when it comes to opinion forming and group concensus.  I remember reading early polls asking Villa fans who they wanted to succeed McLeish and Lambert was way,way out in front (on something like 30%) with a whole load of other runners and riders nipping at his heels.   OGS was featured on the poll, too, and could be found lurking near the bottom on about 3% with Curbishleys of this world.   

It strikes me that so desperate are we for hope and a new, dynamic figurehead to lead our club, that as soon as "The Trees" let us all know that Randy's plane was off to Norway, people simply let out all their emotions and frustrations and piled them onto a fantasy figure.  This outpouring of hope has snowballed and ballooned in such a way that I believe many of the things being said about OGS are beyond the realms of rational thought.  (I was reading last night on another forum that the appointment of OGS would guarantee full houses back at VP, for instance.)

I really don't quite understand what is happening here.  It's as though a mini cult has formed around an infant-faced Norwegian; an infant faced Norwegian who has achieved pretty much the square root of bugger all in top class football management.  Smile, don't worry,  all you have to do is believe.

People point to the mutv video which highlights the views of football sages such as rio ferdinand and say, "Look, look, everyone thinks Ole is ace!"  Dear Lord.  This is an mutv documentary designed to make their former son look a world beater.  Think the Villa promotional videos of Downing booting balls into a wheelie bin and you'll understand why I am totally bewildered at how so many people seem to have lost all sense of proportion.

 I have seen nothing - absolutely nothing - to suggest OGS can turn our club around.  He has no experience of handling senior pros with big egos; he has no track record in the European/world transfer market.  In Norway he is a huge fish in a small bowl.  He will not have such a  pull, such gravitas in England or at Villa.  Making him manager would be like handing over the keys of your prized vintage car to your next door neighbour's eight year old son. 

Exciting?  Oh yes.  Exciting in a good way?  I'm not so sure.
 

[mr woo]

Monty, I would much rather be upfront and say I don't know what sort of football Molde play under OGS than be one of those that repeat football cliches parrot-fashion in an attempt to gain respect on a football forum.
I can't call anything a fact if all I have to go by is other peoples opinions.

Some people say Wigan play good football, on the occasions I've seen them I've found that not to be the case! I form my opinions on what I see, not what I'm told. I don't think there's anything wrong in that.


Damon- I must admit the possible future Man U links aren't really an issue for me. As people rightly say if we are doing well, it's par for the course. I accept we are not a top 4 club and are always in danger of having staff poached by those that are.

[Risso]

But Monty, blind optimism isnt a 'fact' at all - that's my point. I want to make my decision based on evidence, and unfortunately with Ole there isn't a lot to go by.

As somebody aboves suggests, you can make that point for all managers though.  Rodgers plays good football a Swansea, but he was a disaster at Reading.  Martinez also likes to play good football, but his Wigan team are either beyond pathetic or world beaters.  Lambert has done well for Norwich, but his football appears to be more functional, and is he just a good mid-table manager?  The point is, that unless you're going for somebody top drawer like Wenger, or the next level down like Moyes, there isn't concrete "evidence" that they're going to be a success.  I'd say Lambert, Martinez, Rodgers and OGS would all be risks to a similar degree, and all have strengths and weaknesses. 

OGS is definitely the most exciting choice in my opinion, and if that excitement adds 5,000 back on to the gates, that's a another reason to give him a chance.

Anyway, where's the risk, really?  Is he going to be as fundamentally awful as McLeish?  Doubtful.  Might he take a couple of years to find his feet?  Probable, but if we get some good football along the way, then a season or two of midtable finishes won't hurt.  Could he possibly be a masterstroke - unknown, but the chance that he might is what's so exciting.

[PaulWinch again]

But Monty, blind optimism isnt a 'fact' at all - that's my point. I want to make my decision based on evidence, and unfortunately with Ole there isn't a lot to go by.

As somebody aboves suggests, you can make that point for all managers though.  Rodgers plays good football a Swansea, but he was a disaster at Reading.  Martinez also likes to play good football, but his Wigan team are either beyond pathetic or world beaters.  Lambert has done well for Norwich, but his football appears to be more functional, and is he just a good mid-table manager?  The point is, that unless you're going for somebody top drawer like Wenger, or the next level down like Moyes, there isn't concrete "evidence" that they're going to be a success.  I'd say Lambert, Martinez, Rodgers and OGS would all be risks to a similar degree, and all have strengths and weaknesses. 

OGS is definitely the most exciting choice in my opinion, and if that excitement adds 5,000 back on to the gates, that's a another reason to give him a chance.

Anyway, where's the risk, really?  Is he going to be as fundamentally awful as McLeish?  Doubtful.  Might he take a couple of years to find his feet?  Probable, but if we get some good football along the way, then a season or two of midtable finishes won't hurt.  Could he possibly be a masterstroke - unknown, but the chance that he might is what's so exciting.

Very well put Risso and I think that's essentially the point. Mcleish took us to such a low point, that'd it'd be very difficult for a manager, whoever it is, to replicate that. We desperately need to be reinvigorated as a club, there's no real time pressure so the excitement around Solskjaer is what we need. He would be given the time to make his mark at the club, and there's a chance that would begin to move the club back to where it belongs.

[Risso]

I just think that people would get bored with Lambert very quickly.

[OzVilla]

I just think that people would get bored with Lambert very quickly.

I'm not sure, the AML experience has made a few realise that the comfort of mid table is better than looking out for Boltons results each week.

I think Lambert is equally capable of playing attractive football that wins us more games than we lose - at the moment I think that's probably the main criterea.  Hence why we've had some strong interest I'd suspect.

[ASHTONVILLA]

I don't see Lambert as a dull option. Norwich have had a pretty exciting few years from him, as did Colchester before that. I would fully expect Lambert (assuming he was backed with some funds) to get us challenging for European football again.

OGS I know nothing about, could be great, could be pants, not going to form a view based on an advertorial from MUTV.

[Rudy Can't Fail]

I just think that people would get bored with Lambert very quickly.

Maybe but how long will the shine last on OGS if things don't go as planned? Whichever way you look at it, it's a serious gamble, a knee jerk reaction to the dull football at Villa Park over the last few years. It's obvious the fans and board finally realise that a radical change is needed but I hope they're patient enough to give the man a chance. Personally, I can see him growing into the role but it will take time.

As I've mentioned before, there's something very 'Brian Little' about OGS, a no-nonsense, straight talking and refreshing approach. If he can get us playing the way Sir Brian did, I'll be more than happy.

[damon loves JT]

I think we could have a relatively crap first season under OGS and people would be patient. Under Lambert or Martinez the pressure would come much more quickly.

[pauliewalnuts]

The point is, that unless you're going for somebody top drawer like Wenger, or the next level down like Moyes, there isn't concrete "evidence" that they're going to be a success.

I totally agree.

I'd also add that with Moyes and Everton, it is a case of a perfect fit between manager and club. I'm not convinced he would have that success if he were to come here.

[junxs]

Lambert-don't get the OGS fever. I wouldn't be against either choice but one is more risky than the other.

I don't see what's so wrong with the MON connection?Those awful top 6 finishes and cup final....bad times.Just because he knows MON-it doesn't make him prone to wasting millions on squad payers

Thish

[junxs]

This whole don't hire him because he'd like to manage Man U thing is stupid. It's good for a person to want to excel in whatever they do as it means they are ambitious and will want to do well. No manager lasts forever, and if one day he is good enough to manage them, then we'll have done really well from it.

Its the flip side of this that bugs me though, why does he have to prove himself to become the Man U manager (where he already has strong links), but to become Villa manager he has to do bugger all other than win a small time title. Why can't we, the mighty Aston Villa, appoint someone who excelled first?

[not3bad]

I know I'm becoming impatient with the waiting, and it's only been a week!

But I'll give whoever comes in a chance, and will be patient, and that's whether that person coming in is OGS, Lambert or Martinez.

[Rip Van We Go Again]

Thish

Lunch time drinking?

[sid cowans10]

It's the unknown that excites me the fact that we haven't got a clue how he will play or handle the players we pretty much know from the off that am was a defensive style manager but this appointment would at least make us want to got to villa park and look forward to it