Return of O'Neill - divided opinion

[Legion]

I was overjoyed when we appointed O'Neill. Ecstatic. I really thought we were going places. After a while I began to get rather bemused by his signings, tactics, starting line-ups and substitutions. Once Moscow came and went I went right off him but was still prepared to back him as our manager. When he left us in the lurch and dropped us right in it five days before the start of the new season taking almost the entire backroom staff with him, I despised the bastard.

[Californian Villain]

I was overjoyed when we appointed O'Neill. Ecstatic. I really thought we were going places. After a while I began to get rather bemused by his signings, tactics, starting line-ups and substitutions. Once Moscow came and went I went right off him but was still prepared to back him as our manager. When he left us in the lurch and dropped us right in it five days before the start of the new season taking almost the entire backroom staff with him, I despised the bastard.

Pretty much how I feel. I would have forgiven MON for Moscow if the team had beaten Stoke in the next league match and finished more strongly in the league. As it turned out Stoke's late equalizer effectively ended the season righ there.

[hawkeye]

Right, so there is a lot of talk about whether MON was successful in his case against wrongful dismissal from AVFC.  James Nursey has tweeted the following link which is barrister who acted on before on MON in the case. 

http://bit.ly/JnrVl4

Claims they were successful in MON's wrongful dismissal case

They were, they won

[OzVilla]

MON's teams may not have played the best football I've seen, that would have been BFR or Sir Brian, but there were times during his reign that I have probably had more hope for the future than under any previous manager.

That's hard to disagree with.

In my case, I think it was largely due to the billionaire chairman investing money, though, not the manager.

And this is it.  With many other Billionaire owners the money might still be there.  It's just that ours seems to have lost interest and wants his money back after telling us all we had a Bright future etc.

Perhaps MON spent what Randy sanctioned him to spend in the belief/agreement the plug wasn't going to be pulled and Randy then changed his mind post GFC, thus leaving MON agreived and Randy putting the Club on instant austerity measures.

Surely that would be poor long term planning and general lack of balls shown by the owner?

[pauliewalnuts]

Surely that would be poor long term planning and general lack of balls shown by the owner?

Regardless of what your opinion is on O'Neill (and mine is pretty low these days), it's really hard to get away from this - it was poor financial planning indeed if it was so utterly shit or bust as it seems now, a few years on.

[5ft811st2 Durham]

MON's teams may not have played the best football I've seen, that would have been BFR or Sir Brian, but there were times during his reign that I have probably had more hope for the future than under any previous manager.

That's hard to disagree with.

In my case, I think it was largely due to the billionaire chairman investing money, though, not the manager.

And this is it.  With many other Billionaire owners the money might still be there.  It's just that ours seems to have lost interest and wants his money back after telling us all we had a Bright future etc.

Perhaps MON spent what Randy sanctioned him to spend in the belief/agreement the plug wasn't going to be pulled and Randy then changed his mind post GFC, thus leaving MON agreived and Randy putting the Club on instant austerity measures.

Surely that would be poor long term planning and general lack of balls shown by the owner?

I think this might well be right otherwise MON's claim couldn't have succeeded.

I'm far from impressed with what MON did and I'll do my best to let him know on Saturday, but Lerner is so less culpable in my view.

[Nirog72]

It's like an ex-girlfriend. If you give a shit about what they are doing these days it's only you that gets upset. Best ignore the fucker and concentrate on your new Ginger stunner.

[frankmosswasmyuncle]

I was overjoyed when we appointed O'Neill. Ecstatic. I really thought we were going places. After a while I began to get rather bemused by his signings, tactics, starting line-ups and substitutions. Once Moscow came and went I went right off him but was still prepared to back him as our manager. When he left us in the lurch and dropped us right in it five days before the start of the new season taking almost the entire backroom staff with him, I despised the bastard.

Just about sums it up for me.
Thanks Leeg

[Dave Clark Five]

I can't remember when I started to dislike him but I do remember the 'sack him or back him' and 'the end is nigh' threads that I put on here.
Just be grateful that he has gone. There. Not a nasty word about him or any accusation that he is an evil bastard.

[john2710]

Surely that would be poor long term planning and general lack of balls shown by the owner?

Regardless of what your opinion is on O'Neill (and mine is pretty low these days), it's really hard to get away from this - it was poor financial planning indeed if it was so utterly shit or bust as it seems now, a few years on.

Circumstances changed since 2009; Man City's spending power, the financial crisis, Lerner's divorce, the realisation that MON was not as infallible as we were all lead to believe and that MON's runaway spending was not going to deliver.   

[pauliewalnuts]

Surely that would be poor long term planning and general lack of balls shown by the owner?

Regardless of what your opinion is on O'Neill (and mine is pretty low these days), it's really hard to get away from this - it was poor financial planning indeed if it was so utterly shit or bust as it seems now, a few years on.

Circumstances changed since 2009; Man City's spending power, the financial crisis, Lerner's divorce, the realisation that MON was not as infallible as we were all lead to believe and that MON's runaway spending was not going to deliver.   

It's not even that, it's the fact that the spending was carried out in such a way as to allow the financial future of the club to be threatened.

When we were spending the money, nobody said "hang on, is this a good idea?" because we assumed it'd be within a well considered financial framework.

Now it turns out it was actually all a bit reckless.

[joe_c]

Surely that would be poor long term planning and general lack of balls shown by the owner?

Regardless of what your opinion is on O'Neill (and mine is pretty low these days), it's really hard to get away from this - it was poor financial planning indeed if it was so utterly shit or bust as it seems now, a few years on.

Circumstances changed since 2009; Man City's spending power, the financial crisis, Lerner's divorce, the realisation that MON was not as infallible as we were all lead to believe and that MON's runaway spending was not going to deliver.   

It's not even that, it's the fact that the spending was carried out in such a way as to allow the financial future of the club to be threatened.

When we were spending the money, nobody said "hang on, is this a good idea?" because we assumed it'd be within a well considered financial framework.

Now it turns out it was actually all a bit reckless.

What I've recently become curious about is how much, if any, of their spending was based on the assumption of regular sell outs at Villa Park and increased commercial activity. Is it beyond the realms of possibility that the plug was pulled as the gate receipts etc weren't as hoped for or required to continue the level of spending?

[dave.woodhall]

What I've recently become curious about is how much, if any, of their spending was based on the assumption of regular sell outs at Villa Park and increased commercial activity. Is it beyond the realms of possibility that the plug was pulled as the gate receipts etc weren't as hoped for or required to continue the level of spending?

This is what I've always thought - and the general's most telling comment was his "4,000 empty seats - what more can we do?" They thought, and so did many of our fans, that a Doug-free and successful Villa would sell out every game.

[pauliewalnuts]

What I've recently become curious about is how much, if any, of their spending was based on the assumption of regular sell outs at Villa Park and increased commercial activity. Is it beyond the realms of possibility that the plug was pulled as the gate receipts etc weren't as hoped for or required to continue the level of spending?

It's a possibility, but I'm not sure how much difference there would have been in income last year, say, in comparison to the previous couple of years.

That actually doesn't make sense. What I mean is if you have a ground that can hold 42,000, and you average 37,000 (say) rather than fill it every week, is that 5,000 empty seats 19 times a year enough to be the deciding factor between massive spending sprees and poking around for bosmans?

EDIT - if you assume average ticket price of 25 quid, that's 125k a match, times 19 is £2.375m a year.

It is obviously a fair amount of money, but not really enough to tip the balance, I would have thought. We paid Habib Beye that in a year, for example.

[dave.woodhall]

What I've recently become curious about is how much, if any, of their spending was based on the assumption of regular sell outs at Villa Park and increased commercial activity. Is it beyond the realms of possibility that the plug was pulled as the gate receipts etc weren't as hoped for or required to continue the level of spending?

It's a possibility, but I'm not sure how much difference there would have been in income last year, say, in comparison to the previous couple of years.

That actually doesn't make sense. What I mean is if you have a ground that can hold 42,000, and you average 37,000 (say) rather than fill it every week, is that 5,000 empty seats 19 times a year enough to be the deciding factor between massive spending sprees and poking around for bosmans?

It starts to become significant when tickets are so in demand you can stick your prices up to (say) Arsenal levels.