Return of O'Neill - divided opinion

[saunders_heroes]

He's a wanker for walking out, but I still wish he was our manager right now.

[eastie]

I was pleased that his reign ended as it had run its course and he wasnt going to get us any further, but i remember some good times under him too, the sad thing for me was i expected us to kick on from his departure and attract a top manager to take things onwards- the last 2  years though have been a disaster.

I still do not believe however that mon waited and planned to quit just before the season started, i think probably the terms of the milner sale and lack of funds more likely pushed him over the limit and he had had enough- either way i do not miss him but how i wish we had replaced him with a better manager.

[Greg N'Ash]

I stopped caring  a year and a half ago.

For someone who doesn't care, whenever he's mentioned on here, you're always the first to pop up telling us how much you don't care. Its almost like you do care.

[TaxDodger]

I loved him when he was here, and if he'd gone at the end of the 09/10 season I'd have happily applauded. But I just can't forgive him for the disrespect he's shown our club. Spitting his dummy out and leaving, taking his entire coaching staff just five days before the season started is bad enough, but filing legal procedures against Lerner and the like just takes the piss. I'll happily boo him.

[eastie]

I stopped caring  a year and a half ago.

For someone who doesn't care, whenever he's mentioned on here, you're always the first to pop up telling us how much you don't care. Its almost like you do care.

Come on clampy you were one of his greatest admirers and have posted loads on here about him in recent months- admit you care !

[Clampy]

I stopped caring  a year and a half ago.

For someone who doesn't care, whenever he's mentioned on here, you're always the first to pop up telling us how much you don't care. Its almost like you do care.

Come on clampy you were one of his greatest admirers and have posted loads on here about him in recent months- admit you care !

Ah Mr Nursey, how are you these days?

[Clampy]

I stopped caring  a year and a half ago.

For someone who doesn't care, whenever he's mentioned on here, you're always the first to pop up telling us how much you don't care. Its almost like you do care.

It's not me who's got the MON thread alert alarm Greg.

[eastie]

I stopped caring  a year and a half ago.

For someone who doesn't care, whenever he's mentioned on here, you're always the first to pop up telling us how much you don't care. Its almost like you do care.

Come on clampy you were one of his greatest admirers and have posted loads on here about him in recent months- admit you care !

Ah Mr Nursey, how are you these days?

You old rascal!

[eastie]

I stopped caring  a year and a half ago.

For someone who doesn't care, whenever he's mentioned on here, you're always the first to pop up telling us how much you don't care. Its almost like you do care.

It's not me who's got the MON thread alert alarm Greg.

Cant beat a mon thread for bringing on a debate with such differing opinions.

[Clampy]

I stopped caring  a year and a half ago.

For someone who doesn't care, whenever he's mentioned on here, you're always the first to pop up telling us how much you don't care. Its almost like you do care.

Come on clampy you were one of his greatest admirers and have posted loads on here about him in recent months- admit you care !

Ah Mr Nursey, how are you these days?

You old rascal!

I could'nt resist it (smiley face thingy me bob).

[Mister E]

When he left, I used the words "vindictive" and "spiteful" to describe the manner of his departure.
He was the Messiah at the time of his arrival - I think the club needed the regenerative impact he brought - but now he's just "a very naughty boy".

I hope the ground reverberates with disapproval both when he first steps out and throughout the game because I think the rest of the Premiership needs to know that he is not liked and it may lead to a discussion about why. And this might give more balance to the debate about MO'N the manager.

No, you're probably right: I'm hoping for too much.

[Clampy]

I stopped caring  a year and a half ago.

For someone who doesn't care, whenever he's mentioned on here, you're always the first to pop up telling us how much you don't care. Its almost like you do care.

It's not me who's got the MON thread alert alarm Greg.

Cant beat a mon thread for bringing on a debate with such differing opinions.

This is very true, but has'nt it been done to death?

[Greg N'Ash]

I stopped caring  a year and a half ago.

For someone who doesn't care, whenever he's mentioned on here, you're always the first to pop up telling us how much you don't care. Its almost like you do care.

It's not me who's got the MON thread alert alarm Greg.

Just an observation clamps. When i don't care about something i rarely comment on it, not go around asking why everyone else cares :0)

[eastie]

I stopped caring  a year and a half ago.

For someone who doesn't care, whenever he's mentioned on here, you're always the first to pop up telling us how much you don't care. Its almost like you do care.

It's not me who's got the MON thread alert alarm Greg.

Cant beat a mon thread for bringing on a debate with such differing opinions.

This is very true, but has'nt it been done to death?

Yes but a welcome relief from having to think about mcleish!

[Villanation]

I'm pointing out to you there are 2 sides to the story as opposed to the dead head attitude that MON is wrong in all things, read my post and you'll see that's precisely what I'm saying, so please correct me if I'm wrong the hearing that occurred after the game who did they find in favour of.

As for him getting on with the job you've either lived a very sheltered life are your talking rubbish, many many many times in all kind of situations and circumstances surrounding all manner of things sometimes sometimes you are left with no alternative to go a certain way, if you look back at the previous 6 months of MON's tenure Randy Lerner made it publicly clear he was no longer prepared to support MON and he didn't walk out then, it took him another 6 months.

There is way more to this than meets the eye that either you or I are privvy to.

The 2 sides to this story are that they are both as bad as each other, that said looking at the track record of the club since MON's departure I know where my sympathies lies with.

Under MON we had Europe, we had good league standings, we had winning ways, we had Cup finals and we where a great opposition to anybody out there. Look at us now.

How many times does it have to be explained that he did not win that hearing? It's an myth up there with Villa being on course to run away with the league before signing Cascarino and Alex Ferguson getting off to a bad start with Manchester United.

I haven't led a sheltered life, and that's why I stand by what I say. In the normal world people, particularly those with a scrap of decency and honour, do not walk out on jobs because their working conditions have gone from perfect to less so. Let's be realistic - this wasn't a case of workplace bullying or budgetary constraints meaning a job was not only impossible but it had become dangerous to his health and that of his staff. Martin O'Neill was being asked to do his job in the way almost all of his fellow managers do theirs. Of course he had an alternative to leaving - he could carry on with the job he was doing, was being very well paid to do, and to which he owned at least a modicum of loyalty. He could have proved that he is indeed a top manager by doing the job without an unlimited budget and without unprecedented influence. Instead, he chose to walk out at a time which would cause maximum inconvenience to the Villa. We don't know the exact reasons why he left but that is the only fact which is known for certain.

Interesting choice of phrase, "I know where my sympathies lie." You certainly do.

Fair enough, but if its a myth then why did he feel so vindicated at the out come of the hearing and I say again did the Arbitration committee not award MON with a settlement.

So therefore its pretty reasonable to imagine that as MON felt so pleased at the outcome of this hearing allowing him then to pursue his career in management he got the upper hand, point is has I said before none of us know the actual reasons but its a fair bet to say that MON came out of the LMA hearing with the brownie points.

http://www.birminghampost.net/midlands-birmingham-sport/west-midlands-sports/aston-villa-fc/2011/05/24/martin-o-neill-and-aston-villa-tribunal-settled-amicably-says-former-manager-97319-28756941/

People walk out of jobs all the time because they simply feel that there position as become untenable, nothing whatsoever to do with life and death, loyalty or anything else, and managers piss of out of jobs all the time, in fact the only reason why most managers hang on like grime death waiting for the sack is because they know the massive amount the club will have to pay in severance, most times into the millions, MON didn't do that did he.

The points is if you wanted to make a valid point regarding MON such as decisions he made during his tenure like putting out a reserve side v Moscow when we had a side then that had every chance of progressing at that point, then that's a good point, and I said at the time elsewhere if he didn't come up with a good enough reason as to why he caused Villa's exit from the competition, he should be sacked, I said that right then.

Other such points made such as comments about Europe, well, fact is we where in Europe, fact is we would be jumping through hoops now if we where the other end of the table trying to get back into the same position, Villa where never going to be Champions League stuff and had we qualified we would have exited almost immediately IMO.

And on the point of him carrying on and making do, bearing in mind the money he was being paid, I'll put it dead straight to you, I would rather a bloke piss of when he felt for whatever reason that either him or the club would suffer as a result of him continuing and being honest about it than have the kind of rubbish we have now whereby a manager is going to hang on come what may for all the obvious dishonorable reasons, regardless of the shit he's putting the club through because it suits him, there is way to much of that in football.

As for your remarks as to where my sympathies lie, Martin O'Niell had his faults, decisions he made on the pitch, his long ball game, the fact that we had a Chairman that simply threw the running of a massive business over to a football man that was way outside of the normal parameters of managing a football club!! who's fault is that? decisions he made regarding players he transferred in, and the type of player, but aside of all that i genuinely believe MON loved Villa, I think he was proud of his time at Villa and I think he was proud of what he did at Villa.

Fact is all that's is history and MON has no bearing whatsoever on whats happening at Villa now.

And by the way in your previous post in terms of your classic definition of 'Evil', I've always preferred the philosophical understanding of it as quoted by one of the worlds great philosophers and orators, in that his definition is " The conspiracy of man to bring pain, harm suffering and even death to his fellow man" prefer that myself.