Do you have ANY faith left in McLeish ?

[Toronto Villa]

yes, but it is hanging by a pube. I still think every manager needs time to build something. However, he hasn't made any friends in the way he has gone about it this season. Pray we don't sink into the abyss, and give him an opportunity to bring in defenders that can defend corners and set pieces, and other players that can show a little bit of desire in the shirt.

[ktvillan]

I have always said he has to be given time.
 
I do feel it was the wrong move by Randy, an unpopular choice with very little chance of success given the constraints he'd have to work under.
But, he still came, despite all the constraints, that took some balls. And I feel that is the reason why he must be given time, not endless, but he must have the chance to build his team and not be expected to be using MO'Ns players 5 years on.
Personally I'd say until Christmas next season. By then his team should be in place and if we're struggling then maybe that will be the time for Randy to decide.

It took balls for himto accept the job?  Sorry Nigel but that kind of nonsense gets my goat. It's like saying it takes balls to win the lottery.  He's on two million quid a year, more than most will earn in an entire lifetime.  His PL credibility was non-existent, I can't imagine any other PL club touching him with a bargepole, and he gets offered a lifeline.  And the worst he'll endure is a bit of abuse and then eventually the sack.  I bet he pisses himslef laughing when he hears about people feeling sorry for him.

Name one manager who'd have accepted the job given those constraits?
You were looking at the likes of McLaren I doubt if even Steve Bruce would have come.
The only option, which was what I wanted, was to promote within the club. An option which many didn't want.

I don't know for sure who would have taken the job  or what the constraints were exactly, neither do you.  But if you think no decent managers would have been interested in the privilege of managing the Villa for 2 m a year then you're living in la-la land.  Off the top of my head I'd guess Hughes would have jumped at the chance, and Jol might have been interested (he's hardly had bucketloads to spend at Fulham).  Sven too, whatever you think of him, has a much better record than AM.  Curbishley probably, although not particularly inspiring, still a much better record than Eck.

Later in the season I'b be fairly sure Hodgson would have come as well if we'd booted FEckwit out at the right time.  Plus just about any up and coming coach would have been interested, probably Chris Hughton for one. 

Fact is we could have taken any coach from anywhere for a 10th of the cost and they could hardly have done a worse job.

Regardless of who elsse may or may not have taken the job on, it still didn't take any "balls" to be made an instant multi millionaire in exchange for a bit of pressure and a bit of flak, both of which he could mitigate if was actually up to the job.

[lovejoy]

In his defence, and to add a degree of balance, McLeish:
- showed a lot of balls crossing the city
- is acting as a lightening rod to deflect negative comments away from the players
- has won things as a manager and was a relative success with Scotland (he even won something with Blues)
- is clearly in charge at a time of very limited funding when our better players (Young, Downing) were sold and replaced by less able players. Also he's inherited someone else's squad without the option of putting his stamp on it.

[Zhong Yi]

@ KT Villan, if there is any truth in the rumour that Frank Rijkaard called Villa personally and asked about the job and was rebuffed, a certain Mr. Paul Faulkner should be horsewhipped.

[Boz]

I saw the following on the BBC web site. Talk about stating the obvious, he's just a joke.

"Aston Villa manager Alex McLeish is understandably concerned about his team's descent towards the Premier League relegation zone. "I don't think I have ever not been worried this season, he told Mirror Football. "We have to look to get to at least 40 points. That is the target I'd be giving to the players and get to that target as quickly as possible."

[Randy Gurner]

This is as bad as I can remember and I stood in the Holte and watched a season of Div 2 football in the late 80's. Sack him now.

[Fergal]

WHY HAS MY THREAD BEEN LOCKED!!!!?
FASCISTS!!!
EVERYONE ELSE HAS GOT A MACTWAT THREAD!!!!

Just start a thread on another subject, it will soon turn into one...

[nigel]

worst Villa bosses since 1982

1st - Graham Turner
2nd - Billy McNeill
3rd - Alex McLeish

Venglos gets a sympathetic exclusion, even if in an Ivo Stas letter home, he claimed Doug Ellis approached him at a bus stop in Prague and offered him the Villa job.

Doug had this weird notion that foreign managers were going to be the thing of the future .

I'd probably go for McNeill as number 1.
Turner had the misfortune to come in after our most successful period. He was probably under Dougs orders to dismantle the best team ever so he couldn't be reminded of that period.

I thought the Venglos appointment was ahead of the times regarding the English game. Had it been now I reckon he'd have been a success.

[lovejoy]

I saw the following on the BBC web site. Talk about stating the obvious, he's just a joke.

"Aston Villa manager Alex McLeish is understandably concerned about his team's descent towards the Premier League relegation zone. "I don't think I have ever not been worried this season, he told Mirror Football. "We have to look to get to at least 40 points. That is the target I'd be giving to the players and get to that target as quickly as possible."

he's in a no win situation; say nothing and he's running scared, criticise the players and he's lost the dressing room, criticise himself and he' lost confidence, say something obvious and gets comments like yours.

[Risso]

In his defence, and to add a degree of balance, McLeish:
- showed a lot of balls crossing the city
- is acting as a lightening rod to deflect negative comments away from the players
- has won things as a manager and was a relative success with Scotland (he even won something with Blues)
- is clearly in charge at a time of very limited funding when our better players (Young, Downing) were sold and replaced by less able players. Also he's inherited someone else's squad without the option of putting his stamp on it.

- no he didn't.  He was paid a lot of money and was fortunate to get anoher high profile job in the manner he did.
- maybe an unintended side effect.  But his negative press is coming from his dismal perfomance to date, and nothing else.
- his record in Scotland is mixed.  In any event, other than Ferguson 25 years ago, it's no indication of success in the Premier League.  Look at Walter Smith.
- that's just making excuses.  He's got a better squad than much of the Premier League, but his approach to football is all wrong. 

[Mister E]

Interesting to see that his much vaunted defensive qualities have never made it south of the border.

Thanks for the data, Paul.
And you're right - if you take just his premiership games (106 games currently), his record is 1.02 goals-scored per games and 1.39 average goals-conceded: the defensive qualities that people speak of is a myth.

I held off being particularly critical of the man for much of the season but over the last 3-4 weeks my patience has dissolved (starting when I saw them at Wigan and realised that he did not see the oportunitity to win three points) and Saturday was a tipping point for me: playing the kids was a massive plus-sign until I saw how they lined up and then I forced myself to admit that tactically he is mediocre.

Tactical naivety ...
... combined with an unwillingness to chase the points against teams on the ropes ...
 .... allied with a poor performance trend in P'ship management

=

McLeish is not for us.

[pauliewalnuts]

- is clearly in charge at a time of very limited funding when our better players (Young, Downing) were sold and replaced by less able players. Also he's inherited someone else's squad without the option of putting his stamp on it.

Hmmm. He's still had at least some money to spend, and he's done pretty poorly with a much better squad than he's ever had before in England.

There's no getting away from the fact that this is not a top six squad.

The problem is, it is not a bottom six squad, either.

[nigel]

I have always said he has to be given time.
 
I do feel it was the wrong move by Randy, an unpopular choice with very little chance of success given the constraints he'd have to work under.
But, he still came, despite all the constraints, that took some balls. And I feel that is the reason why he must be given time, not endless, but he must have the chance to build his team and not be expected to be using MO'Ns players 5 years on.
Personally I'd say until Christmas next season. By then his team should be in place and if we're struggling then maybe that will be the time for Randy to decide.

It took balls for himto accept the job?  Sorry Nigel but that kind of nonsense gets my goat. It's like saying it takes balls to win the lottery.  He's on two million quid a year, more than most will earn in an entire lifetime.  His PL credibility was non-existent, I can't imagine any other PL club touching him with a bargepole, and he gets offered a lifeline.  And the worst he'll endure is a bit of abuse and then eventually the sack.  I bet he pisses himslef laughing when he hears about people feeling sorry for him.

Name one manager who'd have accepted the job given those constraits?
You were looking at the likes of McLaren I doubt if even Steve Bruce would have come.
The only option, which was what I wanted, was to promote within the club. An option which many didn't want.

I don't know for sure who would have taken the job  or what the constraints were exactly, neither do you.  But if you think no decent managers would have been interested in the privilege of managing the Villa for 2 m a year then you're living in la-la land.  Off the top of my head I'd guess Hughes would have jumped at the chance, and Jol might have been interested (he's hardly had bucketloads to spend at Fulham).  Sven too, whatever you think of him, has a much better record than AM.  Curbishley probably, although not particularly inspiring, still a much better record than Eck.

Later in the season I'b be fairly sure Hodgson would have come as well if we'd booted FEckwit out at the right time.  Plus just about any up and coming coach would have been interested, probably Chris Hughton for one. 

Fact is we could have taken any coach from anywhere for a 10th of the cost and they could hardly have done a worse job.

Regardless of who elsse may or may not have taken the job on, it still didn't take any "balls" to be made an instant multi millionaire in exchange for a bit of pressure and a bit of flak, both of which he could mitigate if was actually up to the job.

I'm not totally disagreeing with you Kt, and you're right, I don't know for sure the constraints, but to be fair it doesn't take a genious to roughly work out the constraints that were placed.
I think of the names you mention Martin Jol would have suited us, unfortunately Fulham snapped him up when Hughes walked out.

[nigel]

WHY HAS MY THREAD BEEN LOCKED!!!!?
FASCISTS!!!
EVERYONE ELSE HAS GOT A MACTWAT THREAD!!!!

Just start a thread on another subject, it will soon turn into one...

Like me Fergal you don't appear to be one of the chosen few 

[nigel]

I saw the following on the BBC web site. Talk about stating the obvious, he's just a joke.

"Aston Villa manager Alex McLeish is understandably concerned about his team's descent towards the Premier League relegation zone. "I don't think I have ever not been worried this season, he told Mirror Football. "We have to look to get to at least 40 points. That is the target I'd be giving to the players and get to that target as quickly as possible."

he's in a no win situation; say nothing and he's running scared, criticise the players and he's lost the dressing room, criticise himself and he' lost confidence, say something obvious and gets comments like yours.

You beat me to it Lovejoy