Pre-match drinking - all change next season

[Kingthing]

That is what I read too. The gaffer's idea apparently. What is happening with The Aston Social? And does anyone know more about the slow, drawn out apparent refurb of The Vine?

The vine should be the one to be knocked down. It needs a fortune spending on it. Possibly the worst bogs in the history of worst bogs in the world.

I take it you've never been to Fratton Park?

[dave.woodhall]

As the King Edward occupies a corner space between two roads, we're talking about demolishing an interesting and attractive Victorian structure for the sake of a few square feet and a few quid. This kind of idiotic civic vandalism has been Birmingham City Council's forte for over 50 years. I hope the money-grabbing morons are proud of themselves.

Plus you will still get stopped at those traffic lights every fucking time then again at Cuckoo Road.

Indeed, but in the future you'll be staring at a corrugated iron shed instead of an attractive Victorian building while you wait.

Yes, the big Sky Sports banner and the sign for cheap all-day breakfasts make the time fly by. Let's get a sense of proportion here - we're talking a rundown pub in a rundown area. It's hardly Glasgow University.

[Trinitymiddle]

As the King Edward occupies a corner space between two roads, we're talking about demolishing an interesting and attractive Victorian structure for the sake of a few square feet and a few quid. This kind of idiotic civic vandalism has been Birmingham City Council's forte for over 50 years. I hope the money-grabbing morons are proud of themselves.

Plus you will still get stopped at those traffic lights every fucking time then again at Cuckoo Road.

Indeed, but in the future you'll be staring at a corrugated iron shed instead of an attractive Victorian building while you wait.

Yes, the big Sky Sports banner and the sign for cheap all-day breakfasts make the time fly by. Let's get a sense of proportion here - we're talking a rundown pub in a rundown area. It's hardly Glasgow University.

The continual demolition of our Victorian heritage means sooner or later we'll have none left.

Aston is an area of great history and character, but if you were a stranger and you just landed on the Lichfield Road side of Aston, you might think you were in a run down sixties new town.

We've already lost the Reservoir, The Church, The Brit, The Vine on The Lichfield Road alone, but yeah, lets knock another one down.

[dave.woodhall]

One thing inner-city Birmingham is not short of is late Victorian pub buildings; they're on every arterial road. There's three within a couple of hundred yards in the area you're talking about. They may not be pubs anymore but there's a reason for that. You can't insist that a failing business stays open just because you might use it occasionally.

[Trinitymiddle]

One thing inner-city Birmingham is not short of is late Victorian pub buildings; they're on every arterial road. There's three within a couple of hundred yards in the area you're talking about. They may not be pubs anymore but there's a reason for that. You can't insist that a failing business stays open just because you might use it occasionally.

I dont think the Edward is a failing business, its a compulsory purchase order.

[dave.woodhall]

One thing inner-city Birmingham is not short of is late Victorian pub buildings; they're on every arterial road. There's three within a couple of hundred yards in the area you're talking about. They may not be pubs anymore but there's a reason for that. You can't insist that a failing business stays open just because you might use it occasionally.

I dont think the Edward is a failing business, its a compulsory purchase order.

And as a result another building of greater architectural merit will be renovated. My initial point stands though - the Edward is not a particularly valuable building.

[Trinitymiddle]

One thing inner-city Birmingham is not short of is late Victorian pub buildings; they're on every arterial road. There's three within a couple of hundred yards in the area you're talking about. They may not be pubs anymore but there's a reason for that. You can't insist that a failing business stays open just because you might use it occasionally.

I dont think the Edward is a failing business, its a compulsory purchase order.

And as a result another building of greater architectural merit will be renovated. My initial point stands though - the Edward is not a particularly valuable building.

I dont think the Tavern is any more architecturally valuable than the Edward, but that's a matter of opinion.

We have lost enough of our architectural heritage in this city, especially in the city centre, and it would be nice to not keep knocking this stuff down. Generally what it gets replaced with is of no aesthetic merit at all (look at what is on the site of the old Reservoir pub), and every time we do it, it makes the city a slightly less pleasant place to live

[pauliewalnuts]

We have lost enough of our architectural heritage in this city, especially in the city centre, and it would be nice to not keep knocking this stuff down. Generally what it gets replaced with is of no aesthetic merit at all (look at what is on the site of the old Reservoir pub), and every time we do it, it makes the city a slightly less pleasant place to live

What about when what is built in the place creates jobs for the area?

[Jimbo]

One thing inner-city Birmingham is not short of is late Victorian pub buildings; they're on every arterial road. There's three within a couple of hundred yards in the area you're talking about. They may not be pubs anymore but there's a reason for that. You can't insist that a failing business stays open just because you might use it occasionally.

I dont think the Edward is a failing business, its a compulsory purchase order.

And as a result another building of greater architectural merit will be renovated. My initial point stands though - the Edward is not a particularly valuable building.

I dont think the Tavern is any more architecturally valuable than the Edward, but that's a matter of opinion.

We have lost enough of our architectural heritage in this city, especially in the city centre, and it would be nice to not keep knocking this stuff down. Generally what it gets replaced with is of no aesthetic merit at all (look at what is on the site of the old Reservoir pub), and every time we do it, it makes the city a slightly less pleasant place to live

Couldn't agree more, Trinitymiddle. Enough is enough.

[Jimbo]

We have lost enough of our architectural heritage in this city, especially in the city centre, and it would be nice to not keep knocking this stuff down. Generally what it gets replaced with is of no aesthetic merit at all (look at what is on the site of the old Reservoir pub), and every time we do it, it makes the city a slightly less pleasant place to live

What about when what is built in the place creates jobs for the area?

Have you seen the amount of space the building takes up? It's not going to affect the commercial viability of the new development much if it stays. Standing as it does, on a fork in the road, it could be a gateway to the development. There's a lot of shit in that area that should be demolished before the King Edward.

[Trinitymiddle]

We have lost enough of our architectural heritage in this city, especially in the city centre, and it would be nice to not keep knocking this stuff down. Generally what it gets replaced with is of no aesthetic merit at all (look at what is on the site of the old Reservoir pub), and every time we do it, it makes the city a slightly less pleasant place to live

What about when what is built in the place creates jobs for the area?

Loads of brownfield sites in Aston to build on. Why build on the site of one of the last remaining decent buildings left?

[pauliewalnuts]

We have lost enough of our architectural heritage in this city, especially in the city centre, and it would be nice to not keep knocking this stuff down. Generally what it gets replaced with is of no aesthetic merit at all (look at what is on the site of the old Reservoir pub), and every time we do it, it makes the city a slightly less pleasant place to live

What about when what is built in the place creates jobs for the area?

Have you seen the amount of space the building takes up? It's not going to affect the commercial viability of the new development much if it stays. Standing as it does, on a fork in the road, it could be a gateway to the development. There's a lot of shit in that area that should be demolished before the King Edward.

Do you know that, though? You're passing it on as fact, so you must, I imagine?

I have to say, it has never struct me as particularly special. It's not even one of the nicer pubs in Aston, in my opinion.

[pauliewalnuts]

We have lost enough of our architectural heritage in this city, especially in the city centre, and it would be nice to not keep knocking this stuff down. Generally what it gets replaced with is of no aesthetic merit at all (look at what is on the site of the old Reservoir pub), and every time we do it, it makes the city a slightly less pleasant place to live

What about when what is built in the place creates jobs for the area?

Loads of brownfield sites in Aston to build on. Why build on the site of one of the last remaining decent buildings left?

Maybe that land suits what they need best - it's not just going to be a warehouse on the plot of that pub, it's a big development, apparently.

[Jimbo]

We have lost enough of our architectural heritage in this city, especially in the city centre, and it would be nice to not keep knocking this stuff down. Generally what it gets replaced with is of no aesthetic merit at all (look at what is on the site of the old Reservoir pub), and every time we do it, it makes the city a slightly less pleasant place to live

What about when what is built in the place creates jobs for the area?

Have you seen the amount of space the building takes up? It's not going to affect the commercial viability of the new development much if it stays. Standing as it does, on a fork in the road, it could be a gateway to the development. There's a lot of shit in that area that should be demolished before the King Edward.

Do you know that, though? You're passing it on as fact, so you must, I imagine?

I have to say, it has never struct me as particularly special. It's not even one of the nicer pubs in Aston, in my opinion.

No, Paulie, I haven't been on site with my hard hat and measuring wheel, but then you knew that, didn't you? I'm basing it on the fact that the pub occupies a small piece of land on a corner in a fork in the road. Unless the plan is to build over those roads, it's surely a small part of the overall development. What really surprises me is the amount of people who are happy to see more and more of Birmingham's old buildings get bulldozed. It's as if they no longer live there or something

[pauliewalnuts]

We have lost enough of our architectural heritage in this city, especially in the city centre, and it would be nice to not keep knocking this stuff down. Generally what it gets replaced with is of no aesthetic merit at all (look at what is on the site of the old Reservoir pub), and every time we do it, it makes the city a slightly less pleasant place to live

What about when what is built in the place creates jobs for the area?

Have you seen the amount of space the building takes up? It's not going to affect the commercial viability of the new development much if it stays. Standing as it does, on a fork in the road, it could be a gateway to the development. There's a lot of shit in that area that should be demolished before the King Edward.

Do you know that, though? You're passing it on as fact, so you must, I imagine?

I have to say, it has never struct me as particularly special. It's not even one of the nicer pubs in Aston, in my opinion.

No, Paulie, I haven't been on site with my hard hat and measuring wheel, but then you knew that, didn't you? I'm basing it on the fact that the pub occupies a small piece of land on a corner in a fork in the road. Unless the plan is to build over those roads, it's surely a small part of the overall development. What really surprises me is the amount of people who are happy to see more and more of Birmingham's old buildings get bulldozed. It's as if they no longer live there or something

I am not happy to see old buildings get bulldozed if it can be avoided, but then again I am willing to see them go if there is an ecomonic case for it which stacks up.

I asked about whether you knew it would not affect the commercial viability not because I thought you would, or because I do - I don't - but to make the point that whilst it's easy to say "this or that wouldn't affect it" we don't actually know if that is true. If you're going to put that as a main reason for your argument, shouldn't you actually know whether that is the case or not?

I am also not saying it should get bulldozed, I am just making the point that maybe it is going for a reason.

I agree with you on the destroying our history thing, I just disagree that means never demolishing anything, ever. I also think it devalues the argument to protect our heritage when buildings of really questionable value - and I appreciate the pub is at a fork in the road and what not - get talked up to something they're really not.

EDIT - apparently, that junction is to be the main entrance to the business park, which is why they want to demolish the pub.