It's hit or bust for McLeish next season. So, what's his plan?

[pauliewalnuts]

I think what will happen is he'll be here three seasons, in which we'll fluctuate between being just above the relegation zone and 10th or so. In that time, we'll stock up on unremarkable players, and play largely safety first, unadventurous football, whilst crowds plonk around the 32k mark.

Three years in, he'll get a little bit too close to the drop for comfort, and get sacked, at which point lots and lots of us (assuming we're still bothered enough to comment at that point) will look at Randy and say "told you so".

If that's the way it's going to be, then fine, but it makes a bit of a mockery of Bright Future.

[Dante Lavelli]

I think what will happen is he'll be here three seasons, in which we'll fluctuate between being just above the relegation zone and 10th or so. In that time, we'll stock up on unremarkable players, and play largely safety first, unadventurous football, whilst crowds plonk around the 32k mark.

Three years in, he'll get a little bit too close to the drop for comfort, and get sacked, at which point lots and lots of us (assuming we're still bothered enough to comment at that point) will look at Randy and say "told you so".

If that's the way it's going to be, then fine, but it makes a bit of a mockery of Bright Future.

As crystal balls go, I'd say that is probably about right.
With all the shit he is having to deal with, I'd say that AMc would be performing about or par (maybe just below) if these events were to transpire.  Probably not enough to sack him but pretty damn boring for the fans. 

[hawkeye]

if we are crystal ball gazing, I think RL will have bailed out within the next 18 months. Its pretty obvious that he does not have the commitment or appetite to take the club forward. We are in the classic "holding patern" no serious decisions will be taken as the business trys to reduce the cash drain on his resources without endangering its PL status. He knows that this is not a long term sustainable strategy. The new owners and there will be new owners will dump AM at the first opportunity.

[Dave Cooper please]

I think you need to look a bit closer at the table after tonight's results. AM is an absolute master at taking clubs down. Don't write him off yet!

By 'absolute master' you mean he has been relegated three times in his 18 year managerial career, two of those being when he took over already extremely shite teams who were going down anyway?

Yes, but his pre PL career doesn't matter - he was managing Rangers for much of it, which is something of a leg up.

His PL career is piss poor, and as for already going down, he took over Blues in November. It's not like he was Terry Connor stepping in the arse end of the season.

And, actually, even if you do take into account his career outside England and say "relegated three times in his 18 year career" - that works out in relegation in one of every six seasons he's managed, and that's pretty piss poor too.

I know all this, but I was questioning the 'past master' bit. In the PL he has been relegated twice with a notorious yoyo club, once when they were utter shit anyway and once when they got distracted by winning a trophy (remember them?). His only other relegation was in the SPL for a team already fucked and who he got straight back up breaking records as he did it.

[old man villa fan]

I think you need to look a bit closer at the table after tonight's results. AM is an absolute master at taking clubs down. Don't write him off yet!

By 'absolute master' you mean he has been relegated three times in his 18 year managerial career, two of those being when he took over already extremely shite teams who were going down anyway?

That paints a brighter picture.

Alternatively, you could say that if you discount the 6 years with Rangers/Scotland, in the remaining 12 years he has had 3 good seasons when he finished 2nd with Motherwell in his first season, 3rd with Hibs and 9th with Blues in 2009-10.  The remaining years were a mid-table finish, 3 relegations, 3 near relegations and 2 promotions.

In the two seasons you mention when he was relegated, in the first he left Motherwell who finished one off relegation before going to Hibs who he took down and in the second he took over from Bruce when the team was outside the relegation places.  I should imagine in both of these seasons the clubs appointed him to get them out of relegation, rather than an appointment to get them up the next season.

All in all, I would say his seasons with Rangers and Scotland masked what could be considered as a mediocre management career at best.

[hawkeye]

His record in Scotland is irrelevant, it means absoloutely nothing with regards to the Premier League, Gordon Strachan was successfull in Scotland,He took Cov down. The place is a backwater in footballing terms.

[Dave Cooper please]

So we just discount whatever he's done well and just count whatever he's done bad?
Seems fair. No prejudice there at all.

[old man villa fan]

With all the shit he is having to deal with, I'd say that AMc would be performing about or par (maybe just below) if these events were to transpire.  Probably not enough to sack him but pretty damn boring for the fans. 

What he is having to deal with is football management in the 21st century.  He has been dealt a hand no worse than most of the teams outside the 6 or 7 teams at the top.

The question is, can he hack it or not.  I do not believe any sympathy is due based on what he took over and the circumstances he faces.

[Dave Cooper please]

What he is having to deal with is football management in the 21st century.  He has been dealt a hand no worse than most of the teams outside the 6 or 7 teams at the top.

Wrong. Most teams outside the top 6 or 7 didn't have their fans expectations raised to the extent we did under O'Wanker and Lerner's spending spree. McLeish is having to pick up the pieces of the new Villa austerity measures.
Yes, he has a similar budget to those teams around us, but most of those know their place in the pecking order, we don't seem to have accepted ours.

[old man villa fan]

What he is having to deal with is football management in the 21st century.  He has been dealt a hand no worse than most of the teams outside the 6 or 7 teams at the top.

Wrong. Most teams outside the top 6 or 7 didn't have their fans expectations raised to the extent we did under O'Wanker and Lerner's spending spree. McLeish is having to pick up the pieces of the new Villa austerity measures.
Yes, he has a similar budget to those teams around us, but most of those know their place in the pecking order, we don't seem to have accepted ours.

You have your opinion and that is fair enough.

Expectations don't come into it in my book.  I look at the cold, hard facts and other clubs don't seem to cry about the situation they face, they just get on with the job of trying to improve rather than accept their lot.

[Dante Lavelli]

With all the shit he is having to deal with, I'd say that AMc would be performing about or par (maybe just below) if these events were to transpire.  Probably not enough to sack him but pretty damn boring for the fans. 

What he is having to deal with is football management in the 21st century.  He has been dealt a hand no worse than most of the teams outside the 6 or 7 teams at the top.

The question is, can he hack it or not.  I do not believe any sympathy is due based on what he took over and the circumstances he faces.

Every club's circumstances are unique but I think AMc's been given a tough hand:
1.  Off the top of my head, I cannot think of another club who are having to downsize quite so aggressively.
2.  This is compounded by the fact that we lived the good life on credit for a few years so a number of the fans see anything below 8th as a failure.   
3.  The club was recently run by a megalomaniac.  When he jumped ship he'd have left a power vacuum which I am not sure has ever been filled.
4.  Ageing set of senior players who do not appear to be willing to change (see also Chelsea)

On the flip side we have an excellent batch of youngsters which if one or two reach their potential then it'll paper over a number of AMc's deficiencies.

[dave.woodhall]

What he is having to deal with is football management in the 21st century.  He has been dealt a hand no worse than most of the teams outside the 6 or 7 teams at the top.

Wrong. Most teams outside the top 6 or 7 didn't have their fans expectations raised to the extent we did under O'Wanker and Lerner's spending spree. McLeish is having to pick up the pieces of the new Villa austerity measures.
Yes, he has a similar budget to those teams around us, but most of those know their place in the pecking order, we don't seem to have accepted ours.

You have your opinion and that is fair enough.

Expectations don't come into it in my book.  I look at the cold, hard facts and other clubs don't seem to cry about the situation they face, they just get on with the job of trying to improve rather than accept their lot.

We do, though, seem to have a lot of supporters who've gone from believing in inevitable Champions League to inevitable relegation without any great justification for either.

[Dave Cooper please]

What he is having to deal with is football management in the 21st century.  He has been dealt a hand no worse than most of the teams outside the 6 or 7 teams at the top.

Wrong. Most teams outside the top 6 or 7 didn't have their fans expectations raised to the extent we did under O'Wanker and Lerner's spending spree. McLeish is having to pick up the pieces of the new Villa austerity measures.
Yes, he has a similar budget to those teams around us, but most of those know their place in the pecking order, we don't seem to have accepted ours.

You have your opinion and that is fair enough.

Expectations don't come into it in my book.  I look at the cold, hard facts and other clubs don't seem to cry about the situation they face, they just get on with the job of trying to improve rather than accept their lot.

I don't see anyone crying apart from the "It's all shit now" jibbers who are talking down our prospects at every opportunity.
McLeish especially has never gone on record to say how shit the situation is, he is just getting on with the task in hand.

[old man villa fan]

What he is having to deal with is football management in the 21st century.  He has been dealt a hand no worse than most of the teams outside the 6 or 7 teams at the top.

Wrong. Most teams outside the top 6 or 7 didn't have their fans expectations raised to the extent we did under O'Wanker and Lerner's spending spree. McLeish is having to pick up the pieces of the new Villa austerity measures.
Yes, he has a similar budget to those teams around us, but most of those know their place in the pecking order, we don't seem to have accepted ours.

You have your opinion and that is fair enough.

Expectations don't come into it in my book.  I look at the cold, hard facts and other clubs don't seem to cry about the situation they face, they just get on with the job of trying to improve rather than accept their lot.

I don't see anyone crying apart from the "It's all shit now" jibbers who are talking down our prospects at every opportunity.
McLeish especially has never gone on record to say how shit the situation is, he is just getting on with the task in hand.

No, but there are people that are using it as a justifiable reason for the club making a totally inappropriate appointment of a manager.

[Dave Cooper please]

No, but there are people that are using it as a justifiable reason for the club making a totally inappropriate appointment of a manager.

And there's the crux.
No matter what the circumstances, no matter how well he does, McLeish has no chance amongst a certain section of our fans, Wonder why.