It's hit or bust for McLeish next season. So, what's his plan?

[PaulWinch again]

I agree Maz, I've noticed tangible relief and resignation to having Mcleish for the forseeable future rather than a sudden turn around to saying that we're great.

[Concrete John]

We played well and deserved to win against a team that had been in form and most predicted would best us.  And it also pretty much ended and lingering relegation fears.

I think we've just gone from a period of complaining about what is wrong to one where we're looking at how we can improve.

[The Laughing Policeman]

Can we rename this thread the "Jeremiah" thread. After reading that load of negative rubbish I feel like putting Leonard Cohen on and lining up the razor blades.
We're Aston Villa and mediocrity is what we are good at.
In my 56 years of going to Villa Park we have always been a mid table side apart from a few notable exceptions..... relegation to the third division, winning the League and the European Cup and finishing second in the PL plus the odd league cup final.
What keeps me going is that despite all the odds, now and again we pull one out of the bag and surprise everyone including our selves.  It's what being a Villa fan is all about.

[brian green]

Sorry TLP but I do not buy into that scenario.   The big difference between what has happened in this fall from grace compared with past slumps is that many of us thought in Lerner we had an owner who had the resources and the enthusiasm to see us throw off nearly 100 years of mediocrity but those hopes have turned to ashes.

The current penny pinching and barrel scraping indicates (to me at least) that Randy Lerner has fallen out oif love with football and probably out of love with Villa.

I will not be critical of any Villa fan who is down and depressed by the current situation because for a brief period we glimpsed the promised land but it turned out to be a mirage.

[Legion]

Well said, Mr. Green.

[levico]

I think you need to look a bit closer at the table after tonight's results. AM is an absolute master at taking clubs down. Don't write him off yet!

[Steve67]

There is still a lot of football to be played this season.  Villa are not safe yet.

[Dave]

There is still a lot of football to be played this season.  Villa are not safe yet.

It would require a ten point swing in the next ten games from a team that has only won 23 points in the last 28 matches.

We're 40-1 for a reason.

[old man villa fan]

There is still a lot of football to be played this season.  Villa are not safe yet.

There is no chance of us going down but every chance that we will be closer to the bottom three than we are now.

[Dave Cooper please]

I think you need to look a bit closer at the table after tonight's results. AM is an absolute master at taking clubs down. Don't write him off yet!

By 'absolute master' you mean he has been relegated three times in his 18 year managerial career, two of those being when he took over already extremely shite teams who were going down anyway?

[hawkeye]

I dont think we are safe, we should not be even having this debate

[DB]

We won't go down.
Another season of him in charge and RL at the helm worries me a lot.

[pauliewalnuts]

I think you need to look a bit closer at the table after tonight's results. AM is an absolute master at taking clubs down. Don't write him off yet!

By 'absolute master' you mean he has been relegated three times in his 18 year managerial career, two of those being when he took over already extremely shite teams who were going down anyway?

Yes, but his pre PL career doesn't matter - he was managing Rangers for much of it, which is something of a leg up.

His PL career is piss poor, and as for already going down, he took over Blues in November. It's not like he was Terry Connor stepping in the arse end of the season.

And, actually, even if you do take into account his career outside England and say "relegated three times in his 18 year career" - that works out in relegation in one of every six seasons he's managed, and that's pretty piss poor too.

If his record really does stand up to scrutiny, why was there not a single voice suggesting him last summer? Or before Houllier was appointed? Or in 2006?

I can understand the argument that he's here and deserves a chance, but his poor record in this country is there to see - and that's just looking at points at the end of the season, there's also the subjective element which takes in the terrible, terrible football his teams play.

When he came here, many of us said "so long as he doesn't play the same old defensive bollocks, he'll have a chance", and what has he done for most of this season? He's played the same old defensive bollocks.

[pauliewalnuts]

Sorry TLP but I do not buy into that scenario.   The big difference between what has happened in this fall from grace compared with past slumps is that many of us thought in Lerner we had an owner who had the resources and the enthusiasm to see us throw off nearly 100 years of mediocrity but those hopes have turned to ashes.

The current penny pinching and barrel scraping indicates (to me at least) that Randy Lerner has fallen out oif love with football and probably out of love with Villa.

I will not be critical of any Villa fan who is down and depressed by the current situation because for a brief period we glimpsed the promised land but it turned out to be a mirage.

This is absolutely spot on, Brian.

The reason it is so hard this time is because we'd been given some hope.

Now, in many respects, living within our means, in on-field terms, we're largely where we were when he arrived. Disappointing.

[Dante Lavelli]

Nothing wrong with that as long as there's a set of creative outlets encouraged to go for it.

With all due respect, have you seen who is sat in the dugout pretending to be a manager?

We may have escaped the drop this year but I can see no light at the end of the tunnel.  Given the brief he was given and the deal F'Eck is on there will be no sacking, not even next Christmas, unless we are 10 points adrift at the foot of the table.
I said when he was appointed if not relegated this year then next year, and the only brightness I can see on the horizon is that the promoted clubs will not be as good a vintage as this year's crop and we may have just enough to escape by the skin of our teeth again.

On the other hand, we might slowly improve.