The ICF

[144 Hard Boiled Eggs]

In about 78 I think, I had to make a hasty exit from the chicken run as soon as Andy Gray had netted what turned out to be the winner.

Yes ('77 I think). I missed the 1st minute goal, just getting in to see Andy celebrating and West Ham lads trying to spot any sign of joy in anyone's face. Keep calm and betray no emotion!

[The Man With A Stick]

What is this, 1996?  Do people actually still buy this ropey old shite?

Someone wants to explain to him the difference between there, their and they're.

[JD]

That's a classic piss take guv'nor.

[Witton Warrior]

My wife, then girlfriend, has only attended one match at Villa Park.
It was the day the ICF launched itself onto the scene.
It is forever known in our house as "The day they threw bricks at us".
It is the only time my late Father exhorted me to "get stuck in" and he forever afterwards loathed West Ham.

[WA Villan]

Would go to West Ham, would never ever, what so ever go to Millwall again. ..............ever.

[D.boy]

ICF - I Cum First?

[Dante Lavelli]

Being the wuss that I am, I'm glad I was too young for all this bullshit.  I love football but the thought of fighting over it, to me, is absurd.  I remember reading about it as a kid and the cliche at the time was that the hooligans on saturday would often be back to their suited and booted jobs (accountants etc) on Monday and the only people who got involved were each clubs hooligans.

How true was this?
Does anyone admit to missing it?

[Lambert and Payne]

Is it true that West Ham and Chelsea have taken the Holte? Both sides say different things...

[144 Hard Boiled Eggs]

No. As I remember they came in early, grouped up, started shouting whilst running down the steps (and getting a few slaps) to the front to get out and walked round the pitch in a 'geezer' like manner to their own fans who applauded and cheered them on.

[Dave Clark Five]

No. As I remember they came in early, grouped up, started shouting whilst running down the steps (and getting a few slaps) to the front to get out and walked round the pitch in a 'geezer' like manner to their own fans who applauded and cheered them on.

Correct account of events.

[Witton Warrior]

Being the wuss that I am, I'm glad I was too young for all this bullshit.  I love football but the thought of fighting over it, to me, is absurd.  I remember reading about it as a kid and the cliche at the time was that the hooligans on saturday would often be back to their suited and booted jobs (accountants etc) on Monday and the only people who got involved were each clubs hooligans.

How true was this?
Does anyone admit to missing it?

It's a bit like the bollocks about all Hell's Angels actually having a PhD in Thermodynamics - there may be a couple but most are/were violent thugs.

I remember the away days on the mid/late 70's as being fantastically exciting because we all had a great ability to create myths about pretty mundane experiences. I took part in general public disorder and, on occasion, fought with opposition fans. I was not a hard case however and had the stuffing knocked out of me until I realised it was utter stupidity.

My NHS work has led me to counsel a couple of "lads" who are trapped by their association with firm-culture. One is Wolves and cannot work in certain areas of the Black Country due to the fact that if he is spotted by Olbiun firm members they will attack him. He was also hospitalised by Blues on St Georges Day when they all meet up to be "English" together. 

[D.boy]

In the early 80's I used to stand on the Holte every home game. My dad was working on the turnstiles so I had a season ticket. We would get to the ground around 1.00pm and I would wait outside the Holte until the turnstiles opened (no getting in for free at Villa Park as it was years more advanced from the Sty where I got in for free every game when he worked there.) I recall standing on the Holte on a couple of occasions at around 2.15pm when all hell broke out towards the back with bricks been thrown fists flying etc. The one thing that did strike me is how anyone can claim they took the Holte End when the stand was sparsley occupied. Brave soles these hooligans.

[Pat McMahon]

I lived in London for nearly 15 years and have known loads of fans of both teams, and this has cropped up in a few  conversations. I was also at both games and my version and memory is this:

The West Ham mob were actually not that big in numbers and were chased away. They freely admit that they never took the Holte and the general story they churn out is that it was a mob of their younger fans (can't remember, Under Fives?) who were trying to make a name for themselves. I was in the Witton End that day and saw it all pretty clearly from a safe distance.

The Chelsea game was much worse, and I was a Holte regular by then. They were already relegated and this was their last away game in the top flight. They had a couple of hundred fans who made their first charge very early, probably 30-40 mins before kick off. Most Villa fans initially scattered, then there was a simultaneous charge by some Villa fans to have a go and by the police to cordon the Chelsea fans at the back of the Holte on the left side. There were a couple of minutes of mayhem and to be honest it was pretty scary. I honestly don't know what would have happened if  the police had not been there, as Chelsea fans were inbig numbers and were coordinated.

The Chelsea fans were led away and order seemed to be restored, though their action had riled a lot of Villa fans. A smaller group of Chelsea had avoided being coralled by the cops and made a second charge about 10 minutes later. This was shorter lived and my memory is that they were chased away quickly. All this would have been much clearer to people on the other 3 sides of the ground.

Arsenal also came up the Holte End very early the season we won the League. It was strange being under the stand by the bars and hearing a stampede above, with everybody abandoning their beers and running upstairs. I never got to see what happened at this one but by the time we had got to the back of the Holte there was no sign of the Londoners.

A lot of exaggeration no doubt over the years, but the Chelsea game was scary because there were so many of them.

[snetta]

This is a pretty accurate account. The only thing to add is that the Arsenal crew came up the rear stairs to the back of the Holte and were met at the top and forced to retreat only to find a welcoming party on the middle concourse. My diary entry read something like " Arsenal fans in Holte, Ha Ha Ha"

[Ads]

Would go to West Ham, would never ever, what so ever go to Millwall again. ..............ever.

The New Den isn't so bad.

It was like Ninian was towards the end; a load of kids spending 90 minutes watching you and doing all the hard man signs instead of watching the game.

There used to be a lot of rough places, but short of the Sty on derby day, there's nowhere you're likely to feel the squeeze any more.