Summer Transfer Thread: Speculation, Lies, Absolute Cr*p and Bosman Rumours

[Malandro]

Pelty, I find it a bit insulting you talk about the "wanton spending of MON" did Randy go on holiday and leave a blank cheque book?
You can slate his signings, but he must have had Randys blessing, where the wages were concerned.

 What we have seen is Randy changing his approach. There is no doubt about that. His reasoning, perhaps is worth questioning.

My guess is that he realises that he cannot compete in the top four and therefore spending any more than say £15million a year doesn't make any sense. Is that fair?

[Rip Van We Go Again]

Your whinge about "selling our best players"

Any chance of you having a discussion without using the words 'whinge' or 'moaning'
We're concerned about the direction the club is going in, that's not whinging or moaning.

[Risso]

Hello Pelty

I'll tell you what's tiresome, it's the enormous mess Lerner and Faulkner have made of running our club, and that fact that for the last few years, we've watched costly mistake after costly mistake being made.  As for things being difficult to grasp, the only thing I struggle with is the question of why anybody on even the vaguest nodding terms with sanity thought that appointing McLeish would be a good idea.  You talk about saving money and correcting the mistakes of the past, but our owners and managment team don't seem to be able to construct a coherent plan.  At first it it was "let O'Neill spend any amount of money he likes with no thought for future cash flow projections", then it changed to "appoint a succession of useless managers, sell our best players and fingers crossed that we don't get relegated".

As for comparisons with Man City, well we don't seem to be able to match the likes of Stoke, Sunderland and Everton these days.

I have no interest in defending the selection of AM; I thought it was a bad idea at the time and it got no better as the months passed. As far as a coherent plan goes, it might be better said that there has been a shift in plans some of which was dictated by the sea change brought in by City. You would be wrong, though, to think that the desire for fiscal restraint was not there early on; you just did not see it because it occurred behind the scenes. There was also a desire to support the manager and to provide him the resources to push on for the CL. In hindsight, they should have clamped down earlier, but they also believed that the manager was going to shift players as he had long been directed to do rather than leave them rotting on the bench. Your whinge about "selling our best players" is a red herring; those players wanted to go, pure and simple, and so they were sold for the best possible fee they could pull in. That is the nature of the game these days, unfortunately.

I had not noticed that Sunderland has been buying many players this summer. Cuellar on a free and who else? We have obtained four, if Holman is included, and are looking for more; not sure what else you would want as that is a decent number compared to many other clubs. Anyone with any sense realizes that past personnel mistakes cannot all be fixed in one summer.

My "whinge" as you so eloquently put it, was not just that we'd sold our best players, but that they haven't been replaced.

Re: Sunderland this summer, they've signed Carlos Cuellar, Louis Saha, Stephen Fletcher and Adam Johnson is up there for a medical today. 

As for all mistakes not being fixed in one summer, no they can't, but the trick is not to go on adding to them.  And if you really think that the players we've signed are enough, then you're even less clued up than you appear to be.

[Hoppo]

Pelty hasnt said 'thats it'. One thing Pelty have a word with PL as certain players i.e Gabby Ireland and Nzog were shite last season on a whole! We do need reinforcements 'were villa hardcore we'll whinge when we want.'

[john e]

i'm quite happy to go with what we have untill some of the big wage earners have left before we replace, just seems quite sensible to me,
if you see a house that you like and can afford you normaly have to sell your own house first before you can move, there is nothing wrong in that, its just the way it has to be for now.

it a bit easier for me to say that as i have more belief in the younger players than most on here,
 i really dont see there would be a lot of difference bringing in 'experienced' players in on our budgets, its the 'experienced' players that we are trying to get rid of, fat lot of good they have been.
unless we are going to spend millions on top world class players, which we are not, we might as well stick with  Baker, Clark, Bannan, Delph etc as they are as good as most we could bring in and will progress to be better with playing experience

i also dont think it was an average performance on saturday, it was a different type of game and style than we have been used to, and in general defensively and midfield were pretty good but lacking the killer ball which will come in time i'm sure.

i cannot honestly remember seeing a Villa team keep the ball like we did in  the first 30 minuets of the game,
 i know it was only 30 mins, i know it all came to nothing and the game ended in defeat, but we controlled the midfield by keeping the ball for long periods, its been a very long time since we did that,

even Sendo said it was the most boring half an hour he had witnessed, i'l tel you why he said that, because West Ham didnt get a kick, they were chasing shadows, couldnt get near the ball, on the stroke of 30 mins the Villa fans started to sing  'we are passing the ball,were Aston Villa were passing the ball' when was the last time you heard that sung ?

 and its the younger players that will allow us to play that way because its the way they have been brought up to play, thats why i'm so encouraged by what i saw, and think we will see something even better come saturday

[VinnieChase84]

Now that Gardner is out for pretty much the season then we would be insane not to get another midfielder in!! Maybe we should get in touch with huddlestone and say we've changed our minds!!

[pelty]

Pelty, I find it a bit insulting you talk about the "wanton spending of MON" did Randy go on holiday and leave a blank cheque book?
You can slate his signings, but he must have had Randys blessing, where the wages were concerned.

 What we have seen is Randy changing his approach. There is no doubt about that. His reasoning, perhaps is worth questioning.

My guess is that he realises that he cannot compete in the top four and therefore spending any more than say £15million a year doesn't make any sense. Is that fair?

It is all about what the wage structure can handle versus the amount being made through match day sales, TV, etc. The transfer fee is not the issue, on the whole (assuming we are not talking Carroll-sized fees), but the wages need to be only X% of total revenue.

As for the "open cheque book," you are correct, it was open and there was probably too much latitude given to MON, but as stated, the continual attempts to get him to shift players because of their wages and his inability to do so led to storm off five days before the season started.

[VinnieChase84]

Pelty, I find it a bit insulting you talk about the "wanton spending of MON" did Randy go on holiday and leave a blank cheque book?
You can slate his signings, but he must have had Randys blessing, where the wages were concerned.

 What we have seen is Randy changing his approach. There is no doubt about that. His reasoning, perhaps is worth questioning.

My guess is that he realises that he cannot compete in the top four and therefore spending any more than say £15million a year doesn't make any sense. Is that fair?

It is all about what the wage structure can handle versus the amount being made through match day sales, TV, etc. The transfer fee is not the issue, on the whole (assuming we are not talking Carroll-sized fees), but the wages need to be only X% of total revenue.

As for the "open cheque book," you are correct, it was open and there was probably too much latitude given to MON, but as stated, the continual attempts to get him to shift players because of their wages and his inability to do so led to storm off five days before the season started.

I heard recently that the wage situation to turnover had dropped massively. Now under 60%?

[pelty]

My "whinge" as you so eloquently put it, was not just that we'd sold our best players, but that they haven't been replaced.

Sure they have! You may not like the individuals who have replaced them, but they certainly have been replaced. Young=NZog, Downing=Holman/Albrighton, Milner=KEA, etc. I do not claim that the players signed have been enough, but clearly PL thinks they are not enough either because he is still looking for more.

As for all mistakes not being fixed in one summer, no they can't, but the trick is not to go on adding to them.  And if you really think that the players we've signed are enough, then you're even less clued up than you appear to be.

It is a bit unfair to suggest that the past mistakes have been "added to" this summer. PL has set about doing things his way and if you have issues with the players he has brought in, take it up with him!

[pelty]

I heard recently that the wage situation to turnover had dropped massively. Now under 60%?

It is much better now, yes, but the desire is to keep it at appropriate levels, not to ramp it back up...

[VinnieChase84]

I heard recently that the wage situation to turnover had dropped massively. Now under 60%?

It is much better now, yes, but the desire is to keep it at appropriate levels, not to ramp it back up...

So in summary when Warnock and hutton leave it will free up 60k p/w and with that we could probably sign 3 players
The fear I have is that they both will leave but it will be last minute on deadline day and won't leave us with enough time to replace.

[Risso]

My "whinge" as you so eloquently put it, was not just that we'd sold our best players, but that they haven't been replaced.

Sure they have! You may not like the individuals who have replaced them, but they certainly have been replaced. Young=NZog, Downing=Holman/Albrighton, Milner=KEA, etc. I do not claim that the players signed have been enough, but clearly PL thinks they are not enough either because he is still looking for more.

As for all mistakes not being fixed in one summer, no they can't, but the trick is not to go on adding to them.  And if you really think that the players we've signed are enough, then you're even less clued up than you appear to be.

It is a bit unfair to suggest that the past mistakes have been "added to" this summer. PL has set about doing things his way and if you have issues with the players he has brought in, take it up with him!

I'm quite happy with the players Lambert has bought in up to a point, but we've got a 3rd division defender and two players from a foreign league.  Nothing wrong with this of course, and I think all three will do very well eventually, but in my opinion it certainly isn't going to be enough in the short term.   It would certainly be adding to the mistakes of the past if having brought Lambert in (an excellent piece of business by the way) he isn't then allowed to compete strongly due to a weak, inexperienced squad.

[pelty]

I heard recently that the wage situation to turnover had dropped massively. Now under 60%?

It is much better now, yes, but the desire is to keep it at appropriate levels, not to ramp it back up...

So in summary when Warnock and hutton leave it will free up 60k p/w and with that we could probably sign 3 players
The fear I have is that they both will leave but it will be last minute on deadline day and won't leave us with enough time to replace.

No, I think players would be brought in even without these two being sold. That said, it would be nice to offload these two for any number of reasons!

[OCD]

From what Lambert has said today, clubs are asking ridiculous amounts for players. Then you see that Fletcher's going for £14m, Jarvis for £10.75m etc. Presumably clubs drop their prices in the final days of a transfer window to shift them and that's why so little happens during the summer and then there's so much activity in the last week of the window.

What it really comes down to is whether people would rather see us throwing money around on grossly over-valued players and higher wages which do the club's long term prospects significant harm...or bring in players where we can for agreeable amounts and wages that are in line with the club's overall objectives.

[pelty]

I'm quite happy with the players Lambert has bought in up to a point, but we've got a 3rd division defender and two players from a foreign league.  Nothing wrong with this of course, and I think all three will do very well eventually, but in my opinion it certainly isn't going to be enough in the short term.   It would certainly be adding to the mistakes of the past if having brought Lambert in (an excellent piece of business by the way) he isn't then allowed to compete strongly due to a weak, inexperienced squad.

I understand the point you are making, but there are no constraints on Lambert of which he was not aware when he took the job. Mainly, this has to do with the wage bill, as stated. "Keep it within these limits," was the mandate, using whatever means necessary. With those rules in place, he has set about accomplishing his vision. If that vision had included Hutton or Warnock on their current wages, so be it, but he clearly felt the better path was one he had trod before using younger, hungrier players from lower divisions and, too, by looking to Europe where the prices and wages are less inflated. If he knew the constraints and the presence of a "weak, inexperienced" squad and still chose to leave Norwich, then there can be no complaints. We have to have patience and allow things to play out over several windows to get a real sense of PL's vision and the type of player he likes. As ever, I would bet that Randy would sanction the acquisition of a player PL thought to be vital to the cause, but the expectation would be that he would work to get the wage bill back in line as soon as possible.