Summer Transfer Thread: Speculation, Lies, Absolute Cr*p and Bosman Rumours

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One of the best goal scorers in one of the best leagues in Europe is only worth 14 million?

Sure you can sniff out a bargain once in a blue moon, but Bent  was cheap at 18 million for the goals he has scored and will score for us.

18 in 38, one in two.

[omariqy]

Joe Bennett rumours gathering pace.  Still think Poulsen is an option for us.

[ozzjim]

No need to say it like that, it's all about opinions. He's good at what he does, I rate him, I'm happy he's here, I just don't think he's as high quality a player as some make out (i.e. the class of Laursen, Mellberg, Milner and Young who we've had over the past few years).

Like you say, in the current market 'worth' is relative, but we were desperate, Sunderland were doing way better than us and it was mid-season. It was an astronomical fee at the time (not knocking Randy at all, I'd rather overpay for someone with guaranteed quality than some of the shite we have done). I just think we pin our hopes on him a little too much, Laursen, Milner and Young have been worth points on their own, we've won games we probably didn't have the better of through their consistency and moments of brilliance. Bent without service is like playing with 10 men at times.

He's scored a few corkers he had no right to get in, but he's missed a lot of chances, especially last season. I think it was Monty who said he's nothing special as a finisher (something I agree with). But yeh, maybe it's something he'll sort out when chances come more regularly.

Sunderland fans did warn of his erratic finishing though, and I'm sure Bruce criticised the way he operates (when he tried to get him wide ride a few times). As well as Capello saying he needed to leave Sunderland to improve his game.

The trouble is we bought him 2 years too late. 2 years earlier and I believe we would have got 4th and now be in a different situation. As it was he came when we were near the bottom, and his movement is world class. His finishing is ok, certainly better than anyone else we have for sure, but his movement is what makes him special. For all the skill Young had, his final ball went down hill when Carew went over the top because Gabby never had the movement to provide the ball in the box. It is no coincidence Young, Walker and Downing all looked great the second half of the Houllier season, because Bent makes it easy to find a killer ball.
His worth is debatable, but I think he would fetch what we paid still, as his goal record has been superb here even when the team was so defensive last season. Strikers also naturally snatch at chances more when they know the next is not coming along in the next 5 minutes. If they get a lot, they relax and find the net more often, so missing a few last season was inevitable, the difference with Bent is though even when missing a few, his goal record was under 1 in 3. I think in the position we are we are very lucky to have him, and I hope we can over the next 3 years give him a side around him that utilises his strengths as it would take us a long way up the table.


Metro have linked us with Defoe. Can't see that one happening. In theory he and Bent just could not play together successfully.

[Shrek]

On the Boro fan site one of their ITK's is saying that Joe Bennett (lb) is coming to us. fee somewhere between 2-4m.
Never really seen him myself but heard he's a promising young left back so it certain fits PL mould of player

Not sure, but I think he is injured at the moment.

[ozzjim]

A slight knock was reported 3 weeks ago about Bennett on a Vital Boro site.

[Dave]

In theory he and Bent just could not play together successfully.

Not just in theory. In practise they couldn't either.

[Monty]

'Goal-scorer' is a loaded term, because while its a truism that you win games by scoring goals, there is a point that you score goals by winning games - that dominating the play in games will win you more than you don't win. To do this, often all out-field players really need to contribute these days, because there can be no passengers: no defenders who can't pass, full-backs who can't attack, defensive midfielders who can only tackle, playmakers who don't work off the ball, wingers who don't track back or strikers who don't contribute to build-up.

It's noticeable that, in Bent's career, he has scored more goals exclusively when his team, overall, has scored fewer, that when the team is set up to allow him to be The Goal-Scorer the team doesn't score as many, because he is the only one scoring. It's all very well scoring 20 goals a season, but if barely anyone else in the team is scoring goals and you end up with a McLeish-esque 40, you haven't  done very well - but if 5 players only score 10 each, then you've made 50 already.

Now, as it happens, I don't think Bent is incapable of being that player who contributes in the build-up and scores goals. I think that his obvious talent for movement off the ball - which vastly exceeds his above-average but little beyond that talent for finishing chances - has led to him being pidgeonholed by un-nuanced British tactical thinking as a 'poacher'. Actually,  even though he'll never have Zlatan-esque technique, that kind of movement could be crucial in build-up play, in two main ways: firstly, obviously, providing an option in space for the man on the ball; secondly, in making dummy-runs to create space for others. In that, he's better and worth more than simple poachers such as Owen or even Defoe; he just needs the right manager and the right tactics to bring it out.

[mazrimsbruv]

No need to say it like that, it's all about opinions. He's good at what he does, I rate him, I'm happy he's here, I just don't think he's as high quality a player as some make out (i.e. the class of Laursen, Mellberg, Milner and Young who we've had over the past few years).

Like you say, in the current market 'worth' is relative, but we were desperate, Sunderland were doing way better than us and it was mid-season. It was an astronomical fee at the time (not knocking Randy at all, I'd rather overpay for someone with guaranteed quality than some of the shite we have done). I just think we pin our hopes on him a little too much, Laursen, Milner and Young have been worth points on their own, we've won games we probably didn't have the better of through their consistency and moments of brilliance. Bent without service is like playing with 10 men at times.

He's scored a few corkers he had no right to get in, but he's missed a lot of chances, especially last season. I think it was Monty who said he's nothing special as a finisher (something I agree with). But yeh, maybe it's something he'll sort out when chances come more regularly.

Sunderland fans did warn of his erratic finishing though, and I'm sure Bruce criticised the way he operates (when he tried to get him wide ride a few times). As well as Capello saying he needed to leave Sunderland to improve his game.

Sorry if you thought I was harsh but I don't think it is about opinions at all. It's about market forces. It's about experience, goal-scoring record, age, nationality and length of contract remaining. I take your point that the perceived 'need' of the buying club (as well as their perceived financial means) may inflate the fee on occasion.

I just can't agree that the fee was 'astronomical'. This was being peddled by the media at the time but I firmly believe that was more to do with the 'fact' that both buying & selling club were 'unfashionable' and not one of their handful of darling teams. They'd changed their tune by the end of the transfer window after the Torres & Carroll transfers, with some even suggesting that, with hindsight, we got a bargain.

Most on here would agree that Bent's goals secured the points that kept us in the Premier League that first season. Are you suggesting that when Bent secures the points it's only because other players supplied him with the service? Are you saying that when Bent's goals dry up (because he's not getting the service) that's a reflection on Bent's ability, rather than the players whose job it is to supply him with chances?

You make some very strange points, not least of which, that a striker who generally scores a goal every two games in the Premier League is 'nothing special as a finisher.'

 

[QBVILLA]

His true worth would be about £12-14m for me. His nationality and club stature of Sunderland compared to us contributed to the rest of the fee, IMO.

One of the daftest posts I've seen on here in a while.

What in God's name is a players 'true worth'? The only figure that counts is his current market value.

As has been widely reported, even on SSN, Bent's scoring record is on a par with Rooney & Drogba.

We payed the going rate which was £18M rising to 24. As I remember it, he signed a four-and-a-half year deal which means he's got 3 years left on his contract.
 
He has since established himself in the England squad so I would estimate his current market value as between 20 and 25 million.

I think it's more of pulling a number out of the air rather than any real definitive. Papiss Cisse for £10m, Carroll for £35m etc etc. At 28 i'd say Bent is probably worth as much as he was when we signed him but the value of having a proper goalscorer to Villa is imo higher.He's a player that we couldn't replace with another of similar quality.

[Clark W Griswold]

No need to say it like that, it's all about opinions. He's good at what he does, I rate him, I'm happy he's here, I just don't think he's as high quality a player as some make out (i.e. the class of Laursen, Mellberg, Milner and Young who we've had over the past few years).

Like you say, in the current market 'worth' is relative, but we were desperate, Sunderland were doing way better than us and it was mid-season. It was an astronomical fee at the time (not knocking Randy at all, I'd rather overpay for someone with guaranteed quality than some of the shite we have done). I just think we pin our hopes on him a little too much, Laursen, Milner and Young have been worth points on their own, we've won games we probably didn't have the better of through their consistency and moments of brilliance. Bent without service is like playing with 10 men at times.

He's scored a few corkers he had no right to get in, but he's missed a lot of chances, especially last season. I think it was Monty who said he's nothing special as a finisher (something I agree with). But yeh, maybe it's something he'll sort out when chances come more regularly.

Sunderland fans did warn of his erratic finishing though, and I'm sure Bruce criticised the way he operates (when he tried to get him wide ride a few times). As well as Capello saying he needed to leave Sunderland to improve his game.

The trouble is we bought him 2 years too late. 2 years earlier and I believe we would have got 4th and now be in a different situation. As it was he came when we were near the bottom, and his movement is world class. His finishing is ok, certainly better than anyone else we have for sure, but his movement is what makes him special. For all the skill Young had, his final ball went down hill when Carew went over the top because Gabby never had the movement to provide the ball in the box. It is no coincidence Young, Walker and Downing all looked great the second half of the Houllier season, because Bent makes it easy to find a killer ball.
His worth is debatable, but I think he would fetch what we paid still, as his goal record has been superb here even when the team was so defensive last season. Strikers also naturally snatch at chances more when they know the next is not coming along in the next 5 minutes. If they get a lot, they relax and find the net more often, so missing a few last season was inevitable, the difference with Bent is though even when missing a few, his goal record was under 1 in 3. I think in the position we are we are very lucky to have him, and I hope we can over the next 3 years give him a side around him that utilises his strengths as it would take us a long way up the table.


Metro have linked us with Defoe. Can't see that one happening. In theory he and Bent just could not play together successfully.

That is absolutely correct, we should have bought him when he signed for Sunderland, things may well have turned out a lot different. We were crying out for him (or similar) as the final piece in our jigsaw. Hate to say it but it reminded me of Big Ron and Brian Little's teams that just needed 1 or 2 more to complete the team and we didn't go that extra mile after being on the brink.

As for his ability, he's an excellent number 9 (traditional goalscorer) and with the right players around him and a bit of luck he'll score a hat full. I'm also glad he's a Villa player.

[mazrimsbruv]

I think it's more of pulling a number out of the air rather than any real definitive. Papiss Cisse for £10m, Carroll for £35m etc etc. At 28 i'd say Bent is probably worth as much as he was when we signed him but the value of having a proper goalscorer to Villa is imo higher.He's a player that we couldn't replace with another of similar quality.

Nonsense.

Yet again, comparing players relative abilities (with the benefit of hindsight, I might add) when trying to make sense of their transfer fees is utterly pointless.

Papiss Cisse: Overseas player. Unknown quantity with no Premiership experience. A gamble, and, as it transpired, a brilliant one. 26 years old.

Andy Carroll: Home grown player. Known quantity with Prem experience and significant time remaining under contract. 22 years old. Buying club has £50M burning a hole in it's virtual pocket.

Figures are not plucked out of the air. If you understand the transfer market you can generally make sense of the fees players change hands for.

Robin Van Persie is one of the best strikers in Europe and has been that consistently for many years. He'll sell for about £22M. Why? Because he's 28 and he has only 11 months left on his contract.

Do you think anyone (even Liverpool) seriously believes that Andy Carroll is a better player than RvP?

[nigel]

 


Metro have linked us with Defoe. Can't see that one happening. In theory he and Bent just could not play together successfully.[/quote]

Not only in theory, but in practice (game time) they couldn't either.

EDIT: Just read Daves reply 3 or 4 above. Great minds eh? 

[montague]

Spurs fans generally lukewarm about Defoe - he never scores the important goals - usually the third and fourth goal for example, and rarely anything from inside the box  - whereas Crouch always got the crucial goal for them.

[eastie]

Agree defoe and bent werent good together but we do need another option, we cannot rely on bent being fit and on form all the time as we saw last season what happened when he was injured.

Defoe would however be a costly back up option and i would expect it will be more of a target man that paul will be looking for , striker and left back are top priorities in my view.

[Chris Smith]

Don't see the point in another striker. We have Bent and Gabby and we're never going to get a proper view of Delfuneso and Weimann if we put another obstacle in the way of their progress.