Villa defy Hitler, is there photos?

[Summers]

Are there any pictures of the fantastic moment where our lads refused to salute Hitler? I've read about it a little bit, but wondered if there was any photographs.

[N'ZMAV]

I've got one of Bosnich....

[Simba]

Looking for a pic for you but found this from Eric Houghton:

"When we played the next day - we were Aston Villa(against Lowenburg, or somebody, like that - they treated it more or less as an international match. Our manager, Jimmy Hogan, said "They'll expect you to perform the Nazi salute." The FA fella in charge of the England team had come to our manager and said "We've had a chat about it and we think it would be better if your players gave the Nazi salute to be really friendly." We had a meeting about this and George Cummins and Alec Massey and the Scots lads said '"There's no way we're giving the Nazi salute." so we didn't give it. Our argument was that we were a club side and not an international side.

"Anyway, they treated us very well, but it did leave a bit of a nasty taste in the mouth, us refusing to give the Nazi salute. The next time they said we'd got to give the Nazi salute, you see, so we had a meeting and said that, for peace and quietness we'd give the Nazi salute. At the next place, I think it was Stuttgart, both teams gave the Nazi salute, so we went to the centre of the field and gave them the two finger salute and they cheered like mad. They thought it was all right. They didn't know what the two fingers meant. But we've been to Germany several times since and they have treated us very well"

[Stu]

Never forget how the Sunday Mercury spun this story a few years ago; it was made to suggest that Villa were in support of Nazi Germany.

Boycott the Mercury - never buy it.

[newtonsballs]

Are there any pictures of the fantastic moment where our lads refused to salute Hitler? I've read about it a little bit, but wondered if there was any photographs.

Aston Villa the complete record, by Rob Bishop & Frank Holt, pages 62/63.

Sunday Mercury - wouldn't use it for toilet paper fo fear of contamination.

[montague]

This is interesting - reports from the Express of the day

http://eureferendum.blogspot.com/2011/07/moment-of-shame.html

[Brian Taylor]

Is August Landmesser wearing a Villa Shirt?
http://www.google.co.uk/imgres?imgurl=http://www.fasena.de/courage/images/021.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.fasena.de/courage/english/5a.htm&h=594&w=900&sz=200&tbnid=2yqzkdDhwQd4XM:&tbnh=90&tbnw=136&prev=/search%3Fq%3Daugust%2Blandmesser%26tbm%3Disch%26tbo%3Du&zoom=1&q=august+landmesser&docid=Zb9AQ6Xv1PpV6M&hl=en&sa=X&ei=93AyT4jgCYe98gO7-7yRBw&ved=0CEMQ9QEwAw&dur=2857

bit of detail..
http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/blogpost/post/august-landmesser-shipyard-worker-in-hamburg-refused-to-perform-nazi-salute-photo/2012/02/07/gIQA1ZzExQ_blog.html?tid=pm_national_pop 
He deserved to be a Villa fan!

[Billy Walker]

We've said it before here, but could you imagine how the press would be all over this if it was one of their "select" clubs?

It's a fantastic chapter of Villa's history and the players involved deserve to have their story told to the wider football world.  Maybe one day.  There's no greater club out there than Villa.

[DeKuip]

We've said it before here, but could you imagine how the press would be all over this if it was one of their "select" clubs?

One of the reasons the FA made the England team salute was because a year earlier Man City players had refused to do so when they also played at the Berlin Olympic Stadium. This had caused a bit of a storm at the time as German pride had taken a battering just a few days earlier with the Hindenburg airship disaster.
City's Peter Doherty later wrote: "We were expected to give the Nazi salute at the line-up before the match started but we decided merely to stand to attention. When the German national anthem was played only 11 arms went up instead of the expected 22."

Fair play to the Villa lads for going against the FA's wishes and doing what was right, but it shouldn't be forgotten that it was both us and Man City.

[itbrvilla]

We've said it before here, but could you imagine how the press would be all over this if it was one of their "select" clubs?

One of the reasons the FA made the England team salute was because a year earlier Man City players had refused to do so when they also played at the Berlin Olympic Stadium. This had caused a bit of a storm at the time as German pride had taken a battering just a few days earlier with the Hindenburg airship disaster.
City's Peter Doherty later wrote: "We were expected to give the Nazi salute at the line-up before the match started but we decided merely to stand to attention. When the German national anthem was played only 11 arms went up instead of the expected 22."

Fair play to the Villa lads for going against the FA's wishes and doing what was right, but it shouldn't be forgotten that it was both us and Man City.

Yes but did Citeh give 'em the bird? V


: What a waste of my 2000 post!

[Billy Walker]

We've said it before here, but could you imagine how the press would be all over this if it was one of their "select" clubs?

One of the reasons the FA made the England team salute was because a year earlier Man City players had refused to do so when they also played at the Berlin Olympic Stadium. This had caused a bit of a storm at the time as German pride had taken a battering just a few days earlier with the Hindenburg airship disaster.
City's Peter Doherty later wrote: "We were expected to give the Nazi salute at the line-up before the match started but we decided merely to stand to attention. When the German national anthem was played only 11 arms went up instead of the expected 22."

Fair play to the Villa lads for going against the FA's wishes and doing what was right, but it shouldn't be forgotten that it was both us and Man City.

I think a few clubs toured Germany prior to Villa and England's tours.  Derby County were another and they were like Man City, rather non-plussed about the salute.  I think, because things were becoming more and more serious in a diplomatic sense, the context had changed by the time Villa and England went to Germany.  There was huge diplomatic pressure on both teams to not cause offence to the Germans.

[dave.woodhall]

You also have to put it into context. There was still some sympathy for Hitler in Britain at the time; the full horrors of Nazism weren't known and the Daily Mail (who else?) was regularly bemoaning the arrival of Jewish refugees from Germany. 

[Chris Smith]

I've a vague recollection of a photo in the Peter Morris book, I've got a really old hard back copy given to me by an uncle. I'll fish it out when I get chance and let you know.

[dave.woodhall]

I've a vague recollection of a photo in the Peter Morris book, I've got a really old hard back copy given to me by an uncle. I'll fish it out when I get chance and let you know.

There's nothing in the First 100 Years. You may be confusing it with the line-up photo from Christmas 1938 during a minute's silence for Frederick Rinder. 

[Billy Walker]

You also have to put it into context. There was still some sympathy for Hitler in Britain at the time; the full horrors of Nazism weren't known and the Daily Mail (who else?) was regularly bemoaning the arrival of Jewish refugees from Germany. 

Very true.  None of this would have been known at the time. 

Just looking at the articles Montague and Brian Taylor have posted here, though,  gives us a taste of how things were heating up and how suspicious people were becoming of the Nazi regime.