Safe standing - update

[adrenachrome]

If the New North Stand became the 'standing' section at Villa Park, would that mean it would replace the Holte as our 'end'? That would be a pity... I'd rather see any standing area down at the Holte End. I'm converting the Holte Lower tier wouldn't be  that big of a job.

It would.

Just to deal with the extra capacity? What was the concourse like in the Old Holte when it was 19,000 capacity? With a standing lower tier I'd imagine the overall capacity of the new Holte would reach what, 16,500 or 17,000? I'm just curious.

Young man in my day the Holte capacity was 28,000

It was awesome:

[kipeye]

28,001 when I was there and it was full (used to sneak in-well we wuz poor)!

[Pete]

Cracking picture, adrenachrome. On my titchy screen, I can only make out Chico Hamilton and Andy Lochhead, which would date the pic to between 1970 and 1973 I think.

[nick harper]

Cracking picture, adrenachrome. On my titchy screen, I can only make out Chico Hamilton and Andy Lochhead, which would date the pic to between 1970 and 1973 I think.

It looks like it's the Bournemouth game - Feb 1972 and 48,000. I think the other player is Pat McMahon.

[Andy_Lochhead_in_the_air]

Cracking picture, adrenachrome. On my titchy screen, I can only make out Chico Hamilton and Andy Lochhead, which would date the pic to between 1970 and 1973 I think.

It looks like it's the Bournemouth game - Feb 1972 and 48,000. I think the other player is Pat McMahon.

I reckon you are right. It is Pat McMahon and for those of you looking at the picture in Black and White, Bournemouth are in the Green and Black striped shirts.

The link for the picture    http://www.midlandsmemorabilia.com/sitebuildercontent/sitebuilderpictures/andy-lochhead-chico-hamilton-pat-mcmahon-aston-villa-manchester-city-francis-lee-holte-end-terrace.jpg    suggests this is the Charity Shield game against Manchester City played 5/8/72, however that would be wrong as Chico Hamilton did not play in that whereas Hamilton, Lochhead, and McMahon all played against Bournemouth.

[montague]

Agreed that is Bournemouth - clearly a winter pitch

[amfy]

If the New North Stand became the 'standing' section at Villa Park, would that mean it would replace the Holte as our 'end'? That would be a pity... I'd rather see any standing area down at the Holte End. I'm converting the Holte Lower tier wouldn't be  that big of a job.

It would.

Just to deal with the extra capacity? What was the concourse like in the Old Holte when it was 19,000 capacity? With a standing lower tier I'd imagine the overall capacity of the new Holte would reach what, 16,500 or 17,000? I'm just curious.

Young man in my day the Holte capacity was 28,000

It's likely the Holte would have to come down again (or at least undergo extensive refurbishment) as the gradient of the stand is different for seating and standing, which would require changing not only the stand but the concourse underneath. This is why they're probably considering the corner between the Holte and the Trinity first, before expanding to the North Stand, as this would only cause minor disruptions.

I'm not sure whether that's the same for the rail seating used for safe standing. It has to convert to seating for Euro games, and when converted for standing pretty much only one row of people stand between each set of rails. I'm not sure if the Holte is too steep for a fairly straightforward conversion in that style. There'd be a rail at the equivelent of every current row of seating so the risk of tumbling would actually be less than it is now. The thing I am less sure about is the structural load for the increased capacity.

[Irish villain]

If the New North Stand became the 'standing' section at Villa Park, would that mean it would replace the Holte as our 'end'? That would be a pity... I'd rather see any standing area down at the Holte End. I'm converting the Holte Lower tier wouldn't be  that big of a job.

It would.

Just to deal with the extra capacity? What was the concourse like in the Old Holte when it was 19,000 capacity? With a standing lower tier I'd imagine the overall capacity of the new Holte would reach what, 16,500 or 17,000? I'm just curious.

Young man in my day the Holte capacity was 28,000

As a History buff I knew that. I chose the 19,000 figure to compare with its last days but if anything you reinforce my point! Surely concourse shouldn't be an issue if the old stand could handle that.

[dave.woodhall]

As a History buff I knew that. I chose the 19,000 figure to compare with its last days but if anything you reinforce my point! Surely concourse shouldn't be an issue if the old stand could handle that.

It's a completely new stand, so the only comparison would be with the current capacity.

[Monty]

Guardian article by David Conn: http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2012/jan/19/villa-park-terraces

[dave.woodhall]

I'm really impressed at the amount of coverage this has had. Neil Moxley wrote a good piece in the Mail yesterday as well.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-2088004/Aston-Villa-want-safe-standing-area-Villa-Park.html

[frankmosswasmyuncle]

If the New North Stand became the 'standing' section at Villa Park, would that mean it would replace the Holte as our 'end'? That would be a pity... I'd rather see any standing area down at the Holte End. I'm converting the Holte Lower tier wouldn't be  that big of a job.

It would.

Just to deal with the extra capacity? What was the concourse like in the Old Holte when it was 19,000 capacity? With a standing lower tier I'd imagine the overall capacity of the new Holte would reach what, 16,500 or 17,000? I'm just curious.

Young man in my day the Holte capacity was 28,000

It was awesome:

Lucky enough to have a chat with Ken McNaught two seasons ago. He said running out towards the Holte with 25,000 plus shouting for you sent shivers down his spine every time.
I miss standing and would welcome a "safe standing" area but I doubt if it will be at the back of the Holte, which is where it should be!!!

[richl]

If the New North Stand became the 'standing' section at Villa Park, would that mean it would replace the Holte as our 'end'? That would be a pity... I'd rather see any standing area down at the Holte End. I'm converting the Holte Lower tier wouldn't be  that big of a job.

It would.

Just to deal with the extra capacity? What was the concourse like in the Old Holte when it was 19,000 capacity? With a standing lower tier I'd imagine the overall capacity of the new Holte would reach what, 16,500 or 17,000? I'm just curious.

Young man in my day the Holte capacity was 28,000

It's likely the Holte would have to come down again (or at least undergo extensive refurbishment) as the gradient of the stand is different for seating and standing, which would require changing not only the stand but the concourse underneath. This is why they're probably considering the corner between the Holte and the Trinity first, before expanding to the North Stand, as this would only cause minor disruptions.

I'm not sure whether that's the same for the rail seating used for safe standing. It has to convert to seating for Euro games, and when converted for standing pretty much only one row of people stand between each set of rails. I'm not sure if the Holte is too steep for a fairly straightforward conversion in that style. There'd be a rail at the equivelent of every current row of seating so the risk of tumbling would actually be less than it is now. The thing I am less sure about is the structural load for the increased capacity.

 It has to convert to seating for Euro game's ??

[itbrvilla]

If the New North Stand became the 'standing' section at Villa Park, would that mean it would replace the Holte as our 'end'? That would be a pity... I'd rather see any standing area down at the Holte End. I'm converting the Holte Lower tier wouldn't be  that big of a job.

It would.

Just to deal with the extra capacity? What was the concourse like in the Old Holte when it was 19,000 capacity? With a standing lower tier I'd imagine the overall capacity of the new Holte would reach what, 16,500 or 17,000? I'm just curious.

Young man in my day the Holte capacity was 28,000

It's likely the Holte would have to come down again (or at least undergo extensive refurbishment) as the gradient of the stand is different for seating and standing, which would require changing not only the stand but the concourse underneath. This is why they're probably considering the corner between the Holte and the Trinity first, before expanding to the North Stand, as this would only cause minor disruptions.

I'm not sure whether that's the same for the rail seating used for safe standing. It has to convert to seating for Euro games, and when converted for standing pretty much only one row of people stand between each set of rails. I'm not sure if the Holte is too steep for a fairly straightforward conversion in that style. There'd be a rail at the equivelent of every current row of seating so the risk of tumbling would actually be less than it is now. The thing I am less sure about is the structural load for the increased capacity.

 It has to convert to seating for Euro game's ??

Yes , UEFA don't allow it

[Dante Lavelli]

I have always considered the Holte End as the heart of Villa Park.  Would people be happy with the lower North Stand being an all standing end?  I think it was designed for standing originally so that should not be a problem making the change, but it doesn't seem right to me.

That's not saying I would not like it to happen but it would feel like the whole ground was the wrong way round.