Darren Bent

[Risso]

Value added to Darren Bent.

Yes sorry, was reading the thread in reverse!

[old man villa fan]

I must say that there have been some strange and blinkered comments both for and against selling Bent.  As for the logic, I think there is very little in some of the comments.

Much as I like Gabby and the rare excitement when he is playing well, I have thought about the comments that we played far better at Chelsea with him up front on his own.  Yes, he did give Terry and Luiz the runaround for a fair part of the game but when it comes down to the important things that win games like creating chances and scoring goals was he involved.

Ireland's goal was essentially Ireland playing through N'Zogbia who made a terrific run to the byeline before setting up Ireland.  Gabby started to drift out of the game in the 2nd half when we dropped deeper and looked frustrated both with his own performance and lack of service/support (familiar?).  Gabby then had a one on one with the goalkeeper and failed to score (could have cost us the match).  For Petrov's goal Gabby was not involved at all and likewise for Bent's goal.  With Bent's goal it showed the difference between him and Gabby.  Bent does not always score these one-on-ones but you would back him more than you would Gabby.

So, other than providing an out for the defenders by running the channels and chasing lost causes, did Gabby influence the game other than perhaps giving the others confidence by following his example in effort.  Also, the question has to be asked, is Gabby intelligent enough and skillfull enough to play up front other than on his own.

As others have quite rightly said, to win games you have to score goals and we do not have midfield players and defenders that can score enough goals.  We rely on our forwards to score goals, it has been like this for a number of years.

To yesterdays match and some things I noticed that I do not think have been mentioned (apologies if I have missed them):

1.  When the Swansea defenders had the ball all of our players except Bent dropped back which left Bent on his own having to cover all across the line and as he does not have Gabby's pace he looks as though he is not trying to close them down.

2.  When we attack down the wings, both N'Zogbia and Albrighton were starting from too deep.  Young and Downing were fast players and could afford to start from deeper positions but N'Zogbia and Albrighton do not have the same pace so have to start from more advanced positions.

3.  I cannot remember one time that N'Zogbia or Gabby or Albrighton when he came on reaching the byeline and pulling the ball back or square across the goals.

4.  A lot of the balls into the channels for Gabby were long balls into space rather than passes.

5.  Even with a front 4 of Bent, Gabby, N'Zogbia and Ireland, who on paper look a very attacking line up, we didn't look like an attacking team.

6.  What stood out the most though was the complete lack of a player in the middle that could dictate the tempo of the game.

None of the above points were a direct reflection on Bent's performance and I believe there is so much more wrong with our team before even getting down to discuss the positives or negatives of Darren Bent.  There are far more serious issues elsewhere, whether it be individual players performance levels, effort, tactics or formation.

Why do most supporters have a fixation with having to play 2 wide players which results in either 4-4-2, 4-5-1 or 4-2-3-1.  A some have said, 4-4-2 with N'Zogbia and Albrighton leaves us exposed in the centre of midfield and we therefore have to give up creativity in this area.  Also, it is a very flat and rigid system.  I have been thinking for some time that the cause of our problems may be down to the combined low level of performance of the 2 wide players.  N'Zogbia is only now starting to show some flashes of his ability and Albrighton likewise has had a poor end to last season and start to this.  Neither of these players will be a patch on Young or even Downing, who themselves struggled at time to overcome the loss of Milner's workrate in the middle of the park.

I would like us to try something new and radical and play without the wide players, having a sitting midfield player (Clark), 2 in the middle (Petrov and Bannan/N'Zogbia) and an advanced player (Ireland).  This does not mean we do not use the wide areas but move into them rather than have players already in them.  I think this would get the best out of Gabby and Bent playing together as twin strikers and allowing them to move all across the front line and interchange.

[eamonn]

How about Villa, Liverpool and Chelsea play musical chairs with 'Nando, Carroll and Bent? We rotate them all so we have each for ten days a month and the lads aren't as miserable as they are now.

[Mazrim]

I maintain that if he fancies it and if used properly, Carroll could be utterly lethal and score bagloads of goals in this league.
Not that I want to lose Bent of course.

But Carroll never has so there is a major IF in your statement.  Bent on the other hand has a proven track record of scoring bagloads of goals in this league.

The suggestion of a straight swap of them is one of the craziest things I've read on the internet in a long time.

Carroll was in prodigious form before he went to Liverpool. I wanted us to sign him when they were in the Championship.
He's probably the best aerial threat in the league and can be lethal but I know all about his problems too so of course it would be a big gamble.

But in any case, I'm not suggesting swapping Bent for him, just that I dont agree he's anything like as useless as some are making out.
If somebody gets him back to the form he was showing before he moved to Liverpool (which makes a lot of good players curiously shit for some reason) you're basically talking about one of the top scorers in the league. In my opinion.

[Risso]

Buying Bent, then selling the two wingers who supplied all his goals was a shit idea, so selling him and getting Carroll who would also suffer from lack of service would be similarly inane. 

[ozzjim]

Albrighton and NZogbia would enjoy him up front, but then you would still be having to accommodate Gabby, who becomes difficult out of a 4-4-2 and hence was left out a lot by Houllier or played wide.

[Greg N'Ash]

we don't play the way that suits him and i'm not sure playing the way that suits him would get us the results with our current squad.  I'd probably sell him unless the manager was gettting the boot or he was given decent funding.. And that's not meant as a dig at AM, just how it goes. Would have been as useless as a chocolate teapot under MON as well.

[ozzjim]

we don't play the way that suits him and i'm not sure playing the way that suits him would get us the results with our current squad.  I'd probably sell him unless the manager was gettting the boot or he was given decent funding.. And that's not meant as a dig at AM, just how it goes. Would have been as useless as a chocolate teapot under MON as well.

Sadly you are probably right, away he might be better to finish on the counter. At home we need to find a midfield pair that can allow us to play 4-4-2

[Ad@m]

we don't play the way that suits him and i'm not sure playing the way that suits him would get us the results with our current squad.  I'd probably sell him unless the manager was gettting the boot or he was given decent funding.. And that's not meant as a dig at AM, just how it goes. Would have been as useless as a chocolate teapot under MON as well.

I don't think they'd have him back but I actually think Spurs are set up best to supply Benty - two excellent wingers who are happy to get to the byline and whip crosses in plus a creative centre midfielder who's got the ability to slot balls between the centre halves for him to run on to.

[Mazrim]

We have two good wingers and central midfielders who can thread balls in. We just have to play better/smarter.

[Gulf Villa]

The problem with the Villa today, is the question is imaterial. Benty will go if it is the Bindippers who want him, not because of better service , because they will pay him more than what he was happy to sign up to last season, and Randy will take the offer as long as it covers what his outlay has been and a little bit more. He knows AM wont walk over it and he cant realy piss the fans off anymore than he has done already in the last 18months. We really are getting down to our hard core now in terms of attendance.
I just have a funny feeling, that it wont be Bent going, it will be Gabby, not in the know or anything, just a gut feeling.

[Rick_avfc]

If we sign Carroll, Collins will have a field day......HOOF!

If we were to sell Gabby, who seriously would go for him?

[Mazrim]

I dont think there's any chance of that happening. Not now, not ever.
Simply because he's worth more to us as the local homegrown posterboy than he is to anybody else and thus nobody will pay what we would conceivably accept for him. He gets away with more here, he is genuinely loved, well paid and has a long contract.
And to be blunt, I dont think he's ambitious enough to force a move, which in a way is one of his failings. If he had more ruthless determination he would be incredible.

I dont think there's much chance of Bent leaving this window but it's an order of magnitude more likely than Gabby leaving.

[themossman]

I maintain that if he fancies it and if used properly, Carroll could be utterly lethal and score bagloads of goals in this league.
Not that I want to lose Bent of course.

But Carroll never has so there is a major IF in your statement.  Bent on the other hand has a proven track record of scoring bagloads of goals in this league.

The suggestion of a straight swap of them is one of the craziest things I've read on the internet in a long time.

Carroll was in prodigious form before he went to Liverpool. I wanted us to sign him when they were in the Championship.
He's probably the best aerial threat in the league and can be lethal but I know all about his problems too so of course it would be a big gamble.

But in any case, I'm not suggesting swapping Bent for him, just that I dont agree he's anything like as useless as some are making out.
If somebody gets him back to the form he was showing before he moved to Liverpool (which makes a lot of good players curiously shit for some reason) you're basically talking about one of the top scorers in the league. In my opinion.

I basically agree with you but am struggling to think of any players who have got back to their best after suffering failed-big-money-move-to-big-club syndrome.

[KRS]

I've never thought Bent will leave but just seen Sky reporting we're interested in Cole from West Ham and Liverpool are interested in Bent. I dont think the media rumours will go away until the transfer window closes.