Darren Bent

[Rick_avfc]

I honestly cannot believe what I am reading on here. Given the myriad of problems that we currently have right now (not least the tense relationship between the fans and board), do you honestly think that the board would sanction the sale of our key goalscorer one year after laying out for him? In addition, if they were stupid enough to hit the club self-destruct button, do you honestly think we’d get anyone in remotely of his calibre?
He needs service that’s all and if anyone thinks that getting rid and replacing him with some sort of sticky plaster solution involving Championship players and or Zamora is a solution, then frankly they need their head examining.

Did you ever think that RL and PF would appoint Eck as manager despite a massive protest at villa park?  Anything is possible at avfc at the moment.

[TonyD]

I honestly cannot believe what I am reading on here. Given the myriad of problems that we currently have right now (not least the tense relationship between the fans and board), do you honestly think that the board would sanction the sale of our key goalscorer one year after laying out for him? In addition, if they were stupid enough to hit the club self-destruct button, do you honestly think we’d get anyone in remotely of his calibre?
He needs service that’s all and if anyone thinks that getting rid and replacing him with some sort of sticky plaster solution involving Championship players and or Zamora is a solution, then frankly they need their head examining.

If somebody told you a year ago that the board would appoint AM as our next manager you would have laughed until you pissed yourself - but it happened.

[Shrek]

The problem with DB (and this is evident with the teams he has played for previously) is that in the modern game you defend from the front. If DB is not there to do the 6 yard tap ins (of which there is probably no one better at being in the right place since Ian Rush) you are effectively playing with 10 men.
To explain better look at how Gabby led the line against Chelsea, he harried and ran at the back 4 all day when he did not have the ball - he would come deep to get it and his strength held it up for the midfield to join in.
Now look at DB against Swansea - they played six / seven passes from keeper to full backs under no pressure at all - in fact Ireland did most of the running at them to cloase them down.
DB is a master goal poacher - he is not a great footballer, hence my comment about 10 men.
We either have to change our shape to accomodate him (but i dont think we have the right personal to play a flat 4 across midfield or if we continue with a 5 then we have to have total mobility and footballing ability for it to work - in that formation then Gabby should get the nod every time

So for me - as poor a bit of PR as it would be i would sell him and use the funds elsewhere - full backs would be my choice

That's what I have been trying to say. Thanks Hooky

[john e]

I would Keep him or would swap him for Carroll,

and yes I know I'm the only one on here who thinks this would be a good idea

[NeilH]

The board appointed McLeish because they genuinely thought that he would steady the ship whilst we reeled back the frankly ridiculous excesses of O’Neill. I’d say that given the difficult remit, he’s doing a reasonably decent job of it.
However, having just bought Bent one year earlier, at great expense and with much fanfare there is no way that the board are going to cash in to the first possible buyer that rocks on up to Villa Park. He is central to the health of the club and the board would be committing hari-kari if they got rid of him.
The key goal is to further reduce wage bill to a sustainable level and then progress from there. We have already sacrificed our two best players to achieve this as quick as possible. We won’t do it again and I find it bonkers that any of our fans would consider his sale a good thing.

[pauliewalnuts]

I would Keep him or would swap him for Carroll,

and yes I know I'm the only one on here who thinks this would be a good idea

Even leaving aside the folly of swapping one of the most proven English goalscorers in recent years for a kid with a drink problem who has managed 0.5 of a decent premier league season, can you imagine how we'd play if we had Carroll up front?

The temptation to endlessly hoof it at his head would be irresistible.

[MarkM]

The key goal is to further reduce wage bill to a sustainable level and then progress from there.

This begs the question, what do they do once they get the wages down [if they can] they can't then just go on a spending spree and undo all the work just done.

So we will be left with a vastly reduced squad size, with the best and brightest gone and with no real opportunity to improve.

Its like I have gone to sleep and woke up back when Graham Turner was in charge

[NeilH]

The key goal is to further reduce wage bill to a sustainable level and then progress from there.

This begs the question, what do they do once they get the wages down [if they can] they can't then just go on a spending spree and undo all the work just done.

So we will be left with a vastly reduced squad size, with the best and brightest gone and with no real opportunity to improve.

Its like I have gone to sleep and woke up back when Graham Turner was in charge

Herein lies the problem. We had to bring the wage bill down. The level of wages at the club based on the achievements and average gate was unsustainable. There’s lots of talk of ‘the Ajax way’, yet I’ve seen scant evidence of us genuinely taking this seriously other than using it as a political buzzword.
As has already been stated on another thread, the issue lies in the fact that we seem happy to drift along achieving our historical level of yearly mediocrity because there’s no-one at the club with a clear vision of where to take us.
There seem to be only two certainties for me right now.
1.   Once the wage bill is down we will not be spending MON style again
2.   The board know that selling Bent would destroy what goodwill they have left with the average fan, so they won’t do it.

[monkeyboy]

The key goal is to further reduce wage bill to a sustainable level and then progress from there.

This begs the question, what do they do once they get the wages down [if they can] they can't then just go on a spending spree and undo all the work just done.

So we will be left with a vastly reduced squad size, with the best and brightest gone and with no real opportunity to improve.

Its like I have gone to sleep and woke up back when Graham Turner was in charge

This is a really good point - and one that requires a thread of it's own really.

Once the wage bill is trimmed what then - is Randy:

-  stockpiling cash for another punt at European domination
-  is he making the business more viable with a view to a sale
-  taking us to a sustainable position that will see us cement a place in mid table perennially with the hope of a run in the Carling Cup

Hope is the second to be honest - my 2ps worth

[Villafirst]

I honestly cannot believe what I am reading on here. Given the myriad of problems that we currently have right now (not least the tense relationship between the fans and board), do you honestly think that the board would sanction the sale of our key goalscorer one year after laying out for him? In addition, if they were stupid enough to hit the club self-destruct button, do you honestly think we’d get anyone in remotely of his calibre?
He needs service that’s all and if anyone thinks that getting rid and replacing him with some sort of sticky plaster solution involving Championship players and or Zamora is a solution, then frankly they need their head examining.

The board are capable of anything, like selling Cahill, Barry, Milner, Young and Downing without equal quality coming in to replace them. If Lerner gets the chance he'll sell Bent to recoup more of his investment back.

[Concrete John]

The key goal is to further reduce wage bill to a sustainable level and then progress from there.

This begs the question, what do they do once they get the wages down [if they can] they can't then just go on a spending spree and undo all the work just done.

So we will be left with a vastly reduced squad size, with the best and brightest gone and with no real opportunity to improve.

Its like I have gone to sleep and woke up back when Graham Turner was in charge

Herein lies the problem. We had to bring the wage bill down. The level of wages at the club based on the achievements and average gate was unsustainable. There’s lots of talk of ‘the Ajax way’, yet I’ve seen scant evidence of us genuinely taking this seriously other than using it as a political buzzword.
As has already been stated on another thread, the issue lies in the fact that we seem happy to drift along achieving our historical level of yearly mediocrity because there’s no-one at the club with a clear vision of where to take us.
There seem to be only two certainties for me right now.
1.   Once the wage bill is down we will not be spending MON style again
2.   The board know that selling Bent would destroy what goodwill they have left with the average fan, so they won’t do it.

I'm not sure we need to cut the wagebill any further, just hold it where it is.  And that gives us at least some hope as there are a few to go shortly that either don't contribute at all or don't contribute enough given their salaries.  So, get them out and then wisely look for the replacements on the same total money and we could see decent improvement.

For example, with none of the rest of the present squad going:-
Heskey out - £60k a week - use it on a top class defender
Cuellar out - £50k a week - use it on a midfielder to replace Petrov (who stays as cover)
Beye out - £40K a week - go overseas and get a good forward to add to the mix with Gabby and Bent 

[Rick_avfc]

This begs the question, what do they do once they get the wages down [if they can] they can't then just go on a spending spree and undo all the work just done.

So we will be left with a vastly reduced squad size, with the best and brightest gone and with no real opportunity to improve.

Its like I have gone to sleep and woke up back when Graham Turner was in charge

This is a really good point - and one that requires a thread of it's own really.

Once the wage bill is trimmed what then - is Randy:

-  stockpiling cash for another punt at European domination
-  is he making the business more viable with a view to a sale
-  taking us to a sustainable position that will see us cement a place in mid table perennially with the hope of a run in the Carling Cup

Hope is the second to be honest - my 2ps worth

I never actually thought of it like that and really does make you think.  I cant see RL splashing the cash again like he did when MON was incharge so it looks like either options or 2 or 3 - hopefully 2.

[Concrete John]

The board are capable of anything, like selling Cahill, Barry, Milner, Young and Downing without equal quality coming in to replace them. If Lerner gets the chance he'll sell Bent to recoup more of his investment back.

In that time frame of when those players were sold we've signed Downing, Bent, Cuellar, Ireland and NZogbia.  Say it's not as good as what's gone if you like, but lets not pretend it's been a total one way stream.     

[The Laughing Policeman]

To my mind Bent is a bit of a luxury player akin to Berbatov. Nice to have as long as you have other players that can do the business when he isn't doing it.
We don't have the calibre of player in the squad that (Gabby apart) can step up and score the goals when Bents  in the team.
When Bent was injured the likes of Albrighton, Petrov and N'Zogbia seemed to have the freedom to go forward more and in the same period Ireland suddenly looked like the player he should be.
When Bent is playing, the midfielders appear to be inhibited from going forward as much as they have done in the games when he was out. I can't see why this should be.
On balance I think I'd keep him and hope AM can find a way to accommodate Bent in a side that plays the way we did over those three games when he was out.

[Toronto Villa]

you build around your best players. You don't discard them. We need to find a way to get the ball to him, because as it showed last season, he does the business. Without him we'd be playing the likes of Brighton or Coventry on a weekly basis this season.