We're stuck with this kind of shite so long as we carry on hacking and slashing at the wage bill with no real plan to improve the team.
Quote from: Lee N'B on December 18, 2011, 08:35:38 PMWe're stuck with this kind of shite so long as we carry on hacking and slashing at the wage bill with no real plan to improve the team.Why are we hacking and slashing at the wage bill? Theres more chance of snowballs in hell than of us ever qualifying for Europe so FFP is not a priority
Just got home and my son still has another seventy odd miles to go. I will give you both of our views, I think we have earned the right to comment.We are totally leaderless on the pitch. Not one single player wants to give any support or encouragement to his team mates. They clearly do not understand what the manager tells them or they cannot do what he tells them. Every team over the years had had its player who hates to lose and who will go around the field trying to put some fire and backbone into the others. We have no Allan Evans, no Peter Withe, no Paul Merson, no Kevin Richardson, no Andy Townsend, no John Gidman, no Vic Crowe - just a bunch of blokes who seem to hate each other.That is my son's view.I have come to the conclusion that our players are just not good enough. Without the three good players we have - Given, Bent and Gabby, we are a second rate team. We can scratch a result against other poor teams but against better players we are woefully exposed.I think we have deluded ourselves - to ease the pain of losing Cahill, Barry, Milner, Young and Downing - that our youngsters are much better than they really are. The only one I think can make the grade is Clark and he never gets a game. Bannan, Delfouesno, Albrighton, Herd, Weimann and the rest are not going to drive us into the top six of the Premiership and will more likely see us drop into the bottom six. Hutton and Warnock are not Premiership quality and neither is Collins. Dunne could be but gives the impression he hates the club and cannot wait to move on. Delph has failed to live up to early expectations and desperately needs a steadying influence which is not there. See "leadership" above. Jenas and Ireland were financial black holes waiting to be fallen into. Guzan reminds me of Burridge and those of you who remember Budgie will know exactly what I mean. Heskey was finished as a Premiership force before we bought him.Add to the players who are not good enough add a manager who is not good enough, and I am too weary to join in troll games about the man, and the reason why days like today and Spurs and Man U and Bolton in the cup are happening becomes blindingly obvious.In all departments, including the board, we are not good enough.Turning to McLeish's interview, it was no more than public hand washing. His "giants" comment was as offensive to the fans as anything uttered by Houllier, but the little phrase which I picked up on was early in his string of excuses when he said "the fans tell you to do this and to do that..." he is clearly assuming the defend yourself at all times stance as far as the fans are concerned and I think we shall look back on today's game and see it as the day the fan's patience with him ran out. One more display like that today and he is going to wonder what hit him.
Quote from: brian green on December 18, 2011, 08:17:19 PMJust got home and my son still has another seventy odd miles to go. I will give you both of our views, I think we have earned the right to comment.We are totally leaderless on the pitch. Not one single player wants to give any support or encouragement to his team mates. They clearly do not understand what the manager tells them or they cannot do what he tells them. Every team over the years had had its player who hates to lose and who will go around the field trying to put some fire and backbone into the others. We have no Allan Evans, no Peter Withe, no Paul Merson, no Kevin Richardson, no Andy Townsend, no John Gidman, no Vic Crowe - just a bunch of blokes who seem to hate each other.That is my son's view.I have come to the conclusion that our players are just not good enough. Without the three good players we have - Given, Bent and Gabby, we are a second rate team. We can scratch a result against other poor teams but against better players we are woefully exposed.I think we have deluded ourselves - to ease the pain of losing Cahill, Barry, Milner, Young and Downing - that our youngsters are much better than they really are. The only one I think can make the grade is Clark and he never gets a game. Bannan, Delfouesno, Albrighton, Herd, Weimann and the rest are not going to drive us into the top six of the Premiership and will more likely see us drop into the bottom six. Hutton and Warnock are not Premiership quality and neither is Collins. Dunne could be but gives the impression he hates the club and cannot wait to move on. Delph has failed to live up to early expectations and desperately needs a steadying influence which is not there. See "leadership" above. Jenas and Ireland were financial black holes waiting to be fallen into. Guzan reminds me of Burridge and those of you who remember Budgie will know exactly what I mean. Heskey was finished as a Premiership force before we bought him.Add to the players who are not good enough add a manager who is not good enough, and I am too weary to join in troll games about the man, and the reason why days like today and Spurs and Man U and Bolton in the cup are happening becomes blindingly obvious.In all departments, including the board, we are not good enough.Turning to McLeish's interview, it was no more than public hand washing. His "giants" comment was as offensive to the fans as anything uttered by Houllier, but the little phrase which I picked up on was early in his string of excuses when he said "the fans tell you to do this and to do that..." he is clearly assuming the defend yourself at all times stance as far as the fans are concerned and I think we shall look back on today's game and see it as the day the fan's patience with him ran out. One more display like that today and he is going to wonder what hit him.Just posted this on legions facebook page and I think it applies here as well."Too many people seem willing to blame the players, the problem is if you watch them they are playing to a 'pattern'; when we defend the whole process seems to be stay on your feet and defend space. That automatically means we only win the ball back when they make mistakes. As the better sides don't make as many mistakes we don't get much ball. On top of that all the good sides play a harrying game in defence, but because our training revolves around defending space we're not used to playing against sides who don't do the same and we take a while to get up to speed with things.I think a number of our players would look much better after a pre-season with a decent coaching team, I certainly won't write off any of delph, albrighton, fonz or bannan until we start playing a style that suits them."I think that sums it up really, he can say as many times as he likes that the players aren't doing what he tells them but we are playing a very different style to how we have under the last 2 managers (and are worlds away from the style of the reserves and youth). The style he's trying to use works well if you have a squad that are big and strong and have a defensive unit that doesn't make mistakes, as much as I hate to admit it that's what blues had (until the players went on holiday early after winning the cup, which was clearly the managers fault).With our current back 4 we're always good for a couple of howlers every game, if you concede a goal or 2 due to those the whole game plan goes to pot.To sum up our training ground work is obviously a farce and needs to be completely scrapped and restarted. Once this is done we need to replace the entire defence with players not so likely to make stupid mistakes and we need bring Makoun back and get him in and build the midfield around him. He is the right type of player he just needed time to settle, with a decent manager I think he'd have had a great season this year.
Quote from: wookster on December 18, 2011, 08:38:28 PMQuote from: Lee N'B on December 18, 2011, 08:35:38 PMWe're stuck with this kind of shite so long as we carry on hacking and slashing at the wage bill with no real plan to improve the team.Spot on Lee. Other clubs have to have a wage budget. But at the end of the day they have had ways to do it - Newcastle the prime example. Had Houllier still been here I think the squad, wage bill and ethos would be very very different. Why are we hacking and slashing at the wage bill? Theres more chance of snowballs in hell than of us ever qualifying for Europe so FFP is not a priorityBecause we can't afford it? I haven't got a problem with that, but it would be nice to think along with that we would adopt new policies of recruitment, say only signing young players making a step up.And then you see Alan Hutton rock up for £4m, and in that one move you think that the club, from the very top down, haven't got a clue and are running the club by the same tired old percieved wisdom that's been ditched long ago by the best clubs.
Quote from: Lee N'B on December 18, 2011, 08:35:38 PMWe're stuck with this kind of shite so long as we carry on hacking and slashing at the wage bill with no real plan to improve the team.Spot on Lee. Other clubs have to have a wage budget. But at the end of the day they have had ways to do it - Newcastle the prime example. Had Houllier still been here I think the squad, wage bill and ethos would be very very different. Why are we hacking and slashing at the wage bill? Theres more chance of snowballs in hell than of us ever qualifying for Europe so FFP is not a priority
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