New Kit unveiled.

[Archie]

Percy, are you sure to be a Villan? I hardly find trace of the typical Villa style in your words.

[Hopadop]

Nice pictures Archie, though if the tractor is yours you should chop it in for a Bonneville.

I've no doubt most Lazio supporters are decent enough, but the club does have a reputation. Is it really undeserved?

[pauliewalnuts]

You have fallen in false common place, like that according to which  Italians are all mafiosi for instance.
In Italy there are many similar common places  about England and the Englishmen (that they are all hooligans like those who killed 39 Juventus fans at the Heysel, for instance), but I never believed to them and this is the reason why I started to come to England when I was 11 year old, and I immediately fell in love with this beautiful Country.

I hope the same may happen to you, mate.

No offence, Archie, but that's totally wide of the mark. I'm the biggest Italophile you'll find - I lived and worked over there for a fair while, and have plenty of Italian friends. I take most of my holidays in Italy as well.

I'm making no observation about a nation, I am not generalising xenophobically, far from it, I'm making an observation on lazio and the fact that they have a serious problem with the far right, and have done for a long time.

I'm talking about things like this:

[Archie]

Nice pictures Archie, though if the tractor is yours you should chop it in for a Bonneville.

Of course is mine, I have painted it in Lazio (and 50% Villa) colours.
But it's not a tractor, is a Harley 883, no possible comparison wuth a Bonneville
Ah, Ian Taylor and Garry Thompson mounted on it.

I've no doubt most Lazio supporters are decent enough, but the club does have a reputation. Is it really undeserved?

Yes. Absolutely.
Because a small bunch of ultras don't represent the 99% of the true fans, like the hooligans in the 80's didn't represent the true English football fans.
And, the "funny" thing is  that most of the ultras are not even fascists but they pretend to do this in order to hit the chairman with which they are in conflict. If they sing a fascist chant, infact, the club is fined, and so this becomes a weapon in his hands.
The atnmosphere at the Stadio Olimpio is vibrant but absolutely tranquil.

In a few words: there are some moroons among the Lazio fans, like there are among the Villans, I saw them especially in occasion of the derby with the Blue noses.
But this doesn't mean that Villa is a club of moroons. Viceversa, what deeply struck me is that a mod of this beautiful forum wrote that Lazio is a fascist club, that means: all at Lazio are fascists.
And he is a mod!
And I'm quite sure that he hasn't seen one Lazio game in his life, nor went to the stadium.
And still he can pontificate with what seems to be a racist slogan.
How this can happen it's beyond me.
No need to say that I'm sad and gutted. 

[pauliewalnuts]

Crikey, Archie, don't you think you're overreacting a little?

I'm not saying all Lazio fans are fascists, I'm saying that Lazio has a serious problem with fascism. I'm also not sure that just pretending to be fascists to annoy the chairman is much of a defence.

[dave.woodhall]

I've been to a Lazio game. I heard monkey chants aimed at a black player (Lilian Thuram) and it sounded like more than 1% of the supporters doing it. I'm not saying they're all fascists and it was a few years ago, but it seemed more than a small minority.

[Archie]

You have fallen in false common place, like that according to which  Italians are all mafiosi for instance.
In Italy there are many similar common places  about England and the Englishmen (that they are all hooligans like those who killed 39 Juventus fans at the Heysel, for instance), but I never believed to them and this is the reason why I started to come to England when I was 11 year old, and I immediately fell in love with this beautiful Country.

I hope the same may happen to you, mate.

No offence, Archie, but that's totally wide of the mark. I'm the biggest Italophile you'll find - I lived and worked over there for a fair while, and have plenty of Italian friends. I take most of my holidays in Italy as well.

I'm making no observation about a nation, I am not generalising xenophobically, far from it, I'm making an observation on lazio and the fact that they have a serious problem with the far right, and have done for a long time.

I'm talking about things like this:

Obviously I condemn this.
But you should add that it doesn't represent the normality.
It appeared only once, and many years ago.

Olimpico stadium has an attendance of 80.000, and you can't take  a small part for the entire writing: Lazio is a racist club. This is simply not true.
If you had written: Lazio Ultras (or, most properly: most of Lazio Ultras) are fascists I would have nothing to object.

Anyhow,  that horrible banner wad exposed  in a derby, and in that occasion there is a huge hatre between that two sets of fans.
Believe me, Villa City is nothing compared to Lazio Roma.
And still, in the derby with the blue noses I have heard with my ears horrible slogans against our opponents.
But I am strongly convinced that some moroons can't represent that club that they pretend to support. 

[pauliewalnuts]

Archie, I am not saying all Lazio fans are fascists, so I apologise if you got that opinion, but the problem is, things like that banner and racism amongst fans, happen at Lazio games more than pretty much any other Western European club you could mention.

What about this one,last season, for example:



What would be the reaction if an English club had a banner like that?

As I said, I apologise if you thought I meant they're all fascists, of course I don't, but to argue that Lazio are no worse than other clubs when it comes to racism is just not true.

Yes, the Villa - Blues derby brings out some horrible behaviour, but it never brings out racism.

[Percy McCarthy]

Percy, are you sure to be a Villan? I hardly find trace of the typical Villa style in your words.

I've never been so insulted in all my life Archie, you cheeky moroon.

[Archie]

Crikey, Archie, don't you think you're overreacting a little?

I'm not saying all Lazio fans are fascists, I'm saying that Lazio

has a serious problem with fascism. I'm also not sure that just pretending to be fascists to annoy the chairman is much of a defence.

If you had written this I would have had no objection.
But you have written: Lazio is a racist club.
Isn't this a racist sentence?
It's like if you had said that I'm  racist too. And you are a mod, this is the reason why maybe I have overreacted, because I felt involved in this.

Anyhow, I'm not angry with you, I accept your explanations, and I am glad invite you to a Lazio game in order to prove that I'm right when I say that the problem concerns only a small although noisy minority!

[pauliewalnuts]

Crikey, Archie, don't you think you're overreacting a little?

I'm not saying all Lazio fans are fascists, I'm saying that Lazio

has a serious problem with fascism. I'm also not sure that just pretending to be fascists to annoy the chairman is much of a defence.

If you had written this I would have had no objection.
But you have written: Lazio is a racist club.
Isn't this a racist sentence?
It's like if you had said that I'm  racist too. And you are a mod, this is the reason why maybe I have overreacted, because I felt involved in this.

Anyhow, I'm not angry with you, I accept your explanations, and I am glad invite you to a Lazio game in order to prove that I'm right when I say that the problem concerns only a small although noisy minority!

I've seen Lazio play, just not in Rome ;-)

As I said, I believe Lazio have an engrained problem with racism that goes back years. I love Italy and I love football, I just don't like racism and fascism, and there seems to be more of it at Lazio games than those of other teams.

For what its worth, I dont believe "Lazio is a racist club" is a racist sentence, no, because I'm judging a football club and its actions, rather than a race or people. I don't know why you find that racist. It's like you saying "Stoke City are a squalid club" - I'd agree with you entirely, but I'd never think you were being racist in saying it. Making generalisations, maybe, but not racist.

Incidentally, I've seen lots of racism too at the Italian club I support, but mainly against other Italians, so Lazio are far from the only club with a problem, that much I will admit. It just strikes me they have the bigger, more engrained problem.

[JQV]

My partner is Roman and a big Roma fan....thus making me a Roma fan and her a Villa fan...during our 3 year tenure.  She is an educated woman (obviously!!) but the consensus is that Lazio fans (from the County) are more narrow minded than your standard Roman whom is exposed to tourists etc.

I suppose where I am going with this is that I am comparing your "standard" Lazio fan with Joe Bloggs from Solihull.

This is all relative of course so in a nutshell Up the Villa, and I regularly fly the claret and blue flag in rome!!

UTV

[Archie]

Archie, I am not saying all Lazio fans are fascists, so I apologise if you got that opinion, but the problem is, things like that banner and racism amongst fans, happen at Lazio games more than pretty much any other Western European club you could mention.

What about this one,last season, for example:



What would be the reaction if an English club had a banner like that?

As I said, I apologise if you thought I meant they're all fascists, of course I don't, but to argue that Lazio are no worse than other clubs when it comes to racism is just not true.

Yes, the Villa - Blues derby brings out some horrible behaviour, but it never brings out racism.

I have just clarified that these horrible banners are used to hit the president with fines.
I am not completely  stupid, I would have noticed if there were problems of racism in the club that I follow since 40 years!

Lazio as a club is and will  always been against racism, and in order to contrast their own "Ultras" (even the Roma ultras are right-oriented) Lazio and Roma organise a lot of events against racism.
These things represent the spirit of a club, and should count much more than a stupid banner or chant.

http://www.asromalive.it/2012/03/roma-lazio-la-partita-contro-il-razzismo/

http://www.romaforever.it/news/leggi.php?idNews=21404

http://www.romaebraica.it/contro-il-razzismo-e-l%E2%80%99antisemitismo-la-roma-e-la-lazio-scendono-in-campo-unite/

http://www.regione.lazio.it/forum_giovani/news_dettaglio.php?vms=&vmf=&id=1611&tblId=NEWS


And a last thing.
Lazio President Lotito has always been against the Lazio ultras, this is the reason why you can't say that Lazio is a racist club.
You can say that many Lazio Ultras are fascist, this could be true, not the club in itself.

Lotito and the Ultras are one against the others even in the Court. . .

http://roma.repubblica.it/dettaglio/il-presidente-laziale-lotito-cosi-ho-rotto-con-gli-ultras/1510350

Lotito's son go to school with the body guard and that proves that the club has nothing to do with the Ultras.

[pauliewalnuts]

I have just clarified that these horrible banners are used to hit the president with fines.
I am not completely  stupid, I would have noticed if there were problems of racism in the club that I follow since 40 years!

Maybe it is a difference in interpretation, but do you think doing it to hit the president with fines is an acceptable reason to make racist chants? I don't.

It is still racist chanting. If fans were truly anti-racist, they wouldn't wave banners like that in any circumstance - let alone one about Auschwitz and ovens.

The first banner i posted was 1998, the second was in 2011 - that's a long time to be indulging in racism to get at a club owner.

Once again, I entirely take your point about the club trying to do something, but I can't accept they don't have a problem with racism, or your explanation of it being to get at the president.

[Archie]

If one cha

I have just clarified that these horrible banners are used to hit the president with fines.
I am not completely  stupid, I would have noticed if there were problems of racism in the club that I follow since 40 years!

Maybe it is a difference in interpretation, but do you think doing it to hit the president with fines is an acceptable reason to make racist chants? I don't.

It is still racist chanting.

I think that if one doesn't share the racial theories  and songs only  to hit the president he is a stupid but not a racist.
Anyhow, even if we assume that the majority of Lazio ultras are fascists, all the other fans and - above all -  the Lazio President is and has always been against them, so you can't say that the club in itself is racist: http://roma.repubblica.it/dettaglio/il-presidente-laziale-lotito-cosi-ho-rotto-con-gli-ultras/1510350