Randy Lerner - Discuss

[CJ]

I dread to think what our ST renewals will be like next year, when the recession is worse, and assuming this season carries on in the same vein.

Does anybody know what the season ticket count is? Judging by the way the away scheme membership has, reportedly, halved, I would imagine there has been a serious decline in season tickets sold. These things are bound to be pro rata. Also worth considering is that many people who go to games are always complaining about the players wages, cost of tickets and poor standard of football etc. Many go because they always have. It is part of their life. Once they have dropped out of the habit of going you would need some sort of Man City like situation to get them back again. If it is crap at £40 it is still crap at £5; albeit considerably cheaper.

I seem to recall the ST's dropped from around 27000 to around 20000 but haven't got anywhere to confirm the numbers. I'm in the 'go because I always have done/part of my life/meet mates' contingent, and you're absolutely right - if I broke the habit and started going to Kiddie instead it would take something special to get me back

[pav]

I've broke the habit and hate to admit it , but not missing it

[Risso]

I've recently discovered that the Villa wages that have been discussed on here previously, included £10m for people in the other 4 companies that make up the RAL group. If you add that £10m to the £7.7m in "management charges" and the £5.7m in debt interest charges it works out at a tidy £450,000 a week that the football club is paying out for Randy and his pals in one way or another. It almost makes Heskey's wages palatable.

Oh. God.

What is it that you think "Aston Villa Football Club Limited" does?  Manufacture widgets?

I don't think that anybody said that the £79m wages bill was just for the players. If you look at the Aston Villa Football Club Ltd accounts, the other £10m includes about half a million for the directors, and the rest is between 364 commercial, operational, admin and maintenance staff, plus a thousand part time match day staff.  Strictly back of a fag packet, but if the match day staff account for say £2m, then the full time staff will be £7.5m.  That's an average salary of about £20K, which sounds about right.

Anyway, I'm just off to drown myself.

[dave.woodhall]

I'll repeat what I've said several times. People whose judgement I respect have investigated the accounts, I've spoken myself to the CEO and finance director, and all say the same - it's money being moved between two RAL companies and nothing more sinister than that.

[Risso]

I'll repeat what I've said several times. People whose judgement I respect have investigated the accounts, I've spoken myself to the CEO and finance director, and all say the same - it's money being moved between two RAL companies and nothing more sinister than that.

It looks the playing side are in Aston Villa FC Limited, and the admin staff etc are in Aston Villa Football Club Limited.  These two companies are owned by an intermediate holding company, Aston Villa Limited, which in turn is owned by Reform Acquisitions, who produce the consolidated accounts.

[Villa'Zawg]

I've recently discovered that the Villa wages that have been discussed on here previously, included £10m for people in the other 4 companies that make up the RAL group. If you add that £10m to the £7.7m in "management charges" and the £5.7m in debt interest charges it works out at a tidy £450,000 a week that the football club is paying out for Randy and his pals in one way or another. It almost makes Heskey's wages palatable.

Oh. God.

What is it that you think "Aston Villa Football Club Limited" does?  Manufacture widgets?

I don't think that anybody said that the £79m wages bill was just for the players. If you look at the Aston Villa Football Club Ltd accounts, the other £10m includes about half a million for the directors, and the rest is between 364 commercial, operational, admin and maintenance staff, plus a thousand part time match day staff.  Strictly back of a fag packet, but if the match day staff account for say £2m, then the full time staff will be £7.5m.  That's an average salary of about £20K, which sounds about right.

Anyway, I'm just off to drown myself.

I don't think anyone would have been left in any doubt that you believed it was the player wages to turnover ratio that was the problem.

Ellis/O'Leary's last year; player wages £38.3m, turnover £49m. wages/turnover ratio 78%

Lerner/O'Neill's last year; Aston Villa FC Limited wages £69m, turnover £91m, wages/turnover ratio 76%

[Risso]

I don't think I ever suggested that hundreds of staff worked for free at Villa.  I think you've got a little bit over-excited by not really understanding the accounts.  Again.

[pauliewalnuts]

[Risso]

I've recently discovered that the Villa wages that have been discussed on here previously, included £10m for people in the other 4 companies that make up the RAL group. If you add that £10m to the £7.7m in "management charges" and the £5.7m in debt interest charges it works out at a tidy £450,000 a week that the football club is paying out for Randy and his pals in one way or another. It almost makes Heskey's wages palatable.

I'm not exactly Lerner's biggest fan, but you're plucking figures from all over the place.  The wages figures you're talking about are 2010, but the £7.7m management charge was in 2009.  The loan interest as a result of the loan notes was £4.1m in 2010, and not £5.7m.  Plus of course the £10m wages that relate to non playing staff aren't paid to "Randy and his pals".  I hope that your long lay off from here wasn't spent solely researching this information.

[Villa'Zawg]

I don't think I ever suggested that hundreds of staff worked for free at Villa.  I think you've got a little bit over-excited by not really understanding the accounts.  Again.

I'm able to understand them well enough to see that the player wages under Lerner/O'Neill was a lower proportion of turnover than they were under Ellis/O'Leary. Is that something we can agree on?

[pauliewalnuts]

What if it were too high in both instances?

[Risso]

I don't think I ever suggested that hundreds of staff worked for free at Villa.  I think you've got a little bit over-excited by not really understanding the accounts.  Again.

I'm able to understand them well enough to see that the player wages under Lerner/O'Neill was a lower proportion of turnover than they were under Ellis/O'Leary. Is that something we can agree on?

I don't think so.  In 2006, £27.7m on player wages (as per 2006 AR) out of a turnover of £49.0m = 56%.  In 2010 it's £69m out of £91m which equals 76%.

[willywombat]

Hey, I used to go to school with a Pakistani lad  who trained as an accountant. He has worked in  Qatar for the last 12 years. He has no football alleigance but e-mailed me yesterday to suggest that a major Qatari player has agreed an in principle deal to buy the club in the summer. In his words they make the Man City owners look like peasants. Not sure how I feel about this and dont shoot me if it doesn't happen

[LeeB]

Hey, I used to go to school with a Pakistani lad  who trained as an accountant. He has worked in  Qatar for the last 12 years. He has no football alleigance but e-mailed me yesterday to suggest that a major Qatari player has agreed an in principle deal to buy the club in the summer. In his words they make the Man City owners look like peasants. Not sure how I feel about this and dont shoot me if it doesn't happen

I've come on here in recent times and stated explicity that I wouldn't want us to go down this path, and that any success acheived by it would be tainted.

However, if the alternative is to endure some of the drivel served up in recent weeks, then bring it the fuck on.

[Marlon From Bearwood]

There must have been 4 or 5 different people mention whispers of a potential Qatari backed buyout recently on here. I know its usually "I know someone, who heard something.." etc, but are people starting to believe there may be something in this?