Aston Villa v Manchester United Post-Match Thread

[Chinchilla Bathhouse]

He sends them out to play that way.

We are so unambitious we don't even leave a man up for corners. It is pathetic, his concern against anyone half decent always seems to be to play for a draw, then once we concede, play to keep the core down.

This isn't something tha has happened just here, this is what he does, this is his thing.

I like the bloke and couldn't give a stuff he managed that lot, but I hate his brand of dire football and his total lack of ambition.

He might have picked the team we wanted but what's be point if you get them to camp in their own half?

Five points from the last seven games, and a growing reputation as the most boring team in the league. Meanwhile the chairman is the other side of the Atlantic with his fingers in his ears, not listening.

But does he send them out to play that way?  This is what's bothering me tonight.  He was going ape on the touchline in the first half - he didn't look like a man whose gameplan was being carried out perfectly.  Don't get me wrong, I agree with everything else you say, his negativity is shocking and our football stinks the league out, but the team looked so disjointed to me that I wonder if the players are listening to him anyway. 

Negative football doesn't equate with defeat - on the contrary it should make you harder to beat.  However, like all tactics it only works if the players apply them.  Same goes for fluent attacking football.   The tactics or formation should have no impact on the commitment of the players in any case.  I think it makes very little difference what approach McLeish takes if there's no unity in the side.  They don't look like a team, they don't play as one, they don't fight for each other, they barely even pass to each other.  No one has the confidence to try anything, no one wants to take the blame for it going wrong.

I'm speculating here, but are our senior players setting the right example, or is the rotten stench of mutiny drifting through the dressing room again?  They do have form for it.  One of them had a particularly angsty face on him tonight and looked like he was arguing with McLeish at one point (need a clue? He's a fat bastard. Oh, and he was captain!  Fancy that!)  I hope I'm wrong, but these arrogant half-arsed passionless performances look more than a case of poor tactics to me.  If I'm right then McLeish is partly to blame, but he needs to show some backbone and kick the bad eggs out faster than they can say "Houllier was mean".  They're a disgrace and their presence is damaging the club.     

[wombat]

I've had enough.... tonight was beyond shit. I froze my tits off and missed the first 1.5 hours of a works xmas do for that. More fool me. I was prepared to give AM a chance. Well now i'm not. That was utterly piss poor. We'd be better off with no manager than what we have now. The most gagantic managerial appointment bollock has been dropped by the board, now have the guts to rectify it and get shot.

I've got another xmas do the night before the Liverpool game and frankly there is no chance i'll be bothering season ticket or not. Bollocks to it.

[Vanilla]

Worst of all is that the manager actually seemed to 'rest' Petrov and Heskey. I think this shows his 'we ain't gonna win this, so why bother' attitude we saw against Citeh and Spurs, and will see against Pool and Arse. 

Playing Albrighton and Bannan from the start seems a warped 'Peter Principle' to quieten disgruntled fans who criticise the constant playing of Heskey.

[KevinGage]

I wouldn't criticise him for dropping Petrov and Heskey.

Most supporters wanted that-especially in the case of the latter. I do wonder whether the gushing praise for Ivanhoe post match was for somebody else's benefit though- maybe he bowed to pressure from the top to drop the useless oaf.   Just wild speculation on my part.

[timeoutbigbar]

Will be interesting in the next match how we line up, no Jenas, no Gardner we will probably either have

     Herd Petrov
Marc Bannan Gabby
          Bent

but I would quite like to try and have something different,

                Guzan
Cuellar Dunne Collins Warnock
           Herd Petrov
   Bannan  Fonz   Gabby
                Bent

Think Fonz would offer more than Heskey and if need be he can still use his head to do Emiles party trick 'The really shit, misplaced flick-on'

Defensive system or not, I'd be surprised if Marc or Bannan got another start soon.  Neither of them impressed me at all today, and although you obviously don't write them off, its unfair if you don't give everyone a chance.  Have a sneaky feeling Ireland will start next week.

[villadelph]

Worst of all is that the manager actually seemed to 'rest' Petrov and Heskey. I think this shows his 'we ain't gonna win this, so why bother' attitude we saw against Citeh and Spurs, and will see against Pool and Arse. 

Playing Albrighton and Bannan from the start seems a warped 'Peter Principle' to quieten disgruntled fans who criticise the constant playing of Heskey.

So what the hell do you want him to do?! The man simply can't win with the supporters. To even think that Villa turned over today is absolutely absurd. Herd and Jenas go off injured, who are you putting in against Manchester United, sure as hell not Stephen Ireland. Heskey and Petrov were the right call.

I'm sorry but your post is just absolute rubbish.

[atomicjam]

Worst of all is that the manager actually seemed to 'rest' Petrov and Heskey. I think this shows his 'we ain't gonna win this, so why bother' attitude we saw against Citeh and Spurs, and will see against Pool and Arse. 

Playing Albrighton and Bannan from the start seems a warped 'Peter Principle' to quieten disgruntled fans who criticise the constant playing of Heskey.

So what the hell do you want him to do?! The man simply can't win with the supporters. To even think that Villa turned over today is absolutely absurd. Herd and Jenas go off injured, who are you putting in against Manchester United, sure as hell not Stephen Ireland. Heskey and Petrov were the right call.

I'm sorry but your post is just absolute rubbish.

The man cannot win with the 'supporters' because he is a manager that fails. He is a crap manager with a cv of boring football and relegation. He has already introduced us to the former, it seems only a matter of time before he gives us the latter. The fact that he put attacking, good players on to start reflects very poorly on his management as they stood ten yards away from Manure and refused to tackle for 90 minutes.

[Rudy Can't Fail]

What yesterday was, in my view, was a defeat for Kevin MacDonald and his influence with AM.

I've always believed KMac and Sid were our secret weapon, experienced professionals that know how to play the game, modern football, not hoofing it, where we really dream to be. Even McLeish couldn't ignore them. GPS for what Randy wants but it goes from bad to worse.

What the fu*k is going on?

The only thing I can think is that there's a complete lack of leadership in the boardroom, with the management and in the team.

[VillaZogmariner]

Just imagine what McLeish could do if he were backed!

[villadelph]

Worst of all is that the manager actually seemed to 'rest' Petrov and Heskey. I think this shows his 'we ain't gonna win this, so why bother' attitude we saw against Citeh and Spurs, and will see against Pool and Arse. 

Playing Albrighton and Bannan from the start seems a warped 'Peter Principle' to quieten disgruntled fans who criticise the constant playing of Heskey.

So what the hell do you want him to do?! The man simply can't win with the supporters. To even think that Villa turned over today is absolutely absurd. Herd and Jenas go off injured, who are you putting in against Manchester United, sure as hell not Stephen Ireland. Heskey and Petrov were the right call.

I'm sorry but your post is just absolute rubbish.

The man cannot win with the 'supporters' because he is a manager that fails. He is a crap manager with a cv of boring football and relegation. He has already introduced us to the former, it seems only a matter of time before he gives us the latter. The fact that he put attacking, good players on to start reflects very poorly on his management as they stood ten yards away from Manure and refused to tackle for 90 minutes.

McLeish can't go out there and do the work for them, end of. If you watched Albrighton's post match interview you will see that even he admits they did not follow the managers orders. Hence why McLeish was going absolutely nuts on the touchline. He said it himself that our goal today was to put a high line on United and pressure them with pace in their defensive third. Was that carried out? Absolutely not.

It didn't matter who was out there today. The simple fact is it was going to be hard to beat United, and even though most of us were expecting a thumping after they had been dumped out of the carling cup, we finished with a flattering scoreline.

It's not the defense, I can tell you that much. As disorganized as they may be at times they were throwing their bodies in front of every shot for the cause today. Alan Hutton, James Collins, Richard Dunne and Stephen Warnock were absolutely throwing everything they could in front of every United opportunity. Warnock and Collins played through injury for the Villa.

We have no ability to transition and hold on to the ball, that's not the managers fault.

[Fergal]

Just imagine what McLeish could do if he were backed!

Backed where?

[Fergal]

I'm happy to put money on Sunderland finishing above us. They have a manager, we have a useless inept tactical blackhole.

And when Sunderland pitch up at VP, watch their team show determination, a will to not give up, and speed on the counter-attack. 'McLeish is like MON but without the money' has been said by a few people on this board, but really, we all know that is a load of bollocks. Not saying MON was perfect, but there is no way one of his Villa sides would ever be that negative, even if our home form under him was patchy.

McLeish is like MON about as much as Heskey is like a footballer.
Lets face it we are fucked.  We have a clueless manager and an owner who has lost the way.

[brian green]

I also think the smell of dressing room rebellion is with us again.   The Usual Suspects got away with disruption last time and they seem to be at it again.   It looks very much like player power at work to me when players are clearly doing their own thing and not following any kind of game plan.

[Chris Smith]

Predictably it is the manager who gets the blame but it is the players who deserve the bulk of the criticism. We got the sort of team all of us wanted to see but they did not deliver. That's the third time we've played a top 4 side and each time we've struggled badly yet against the lesser lights we're far more confident and performances have been more encouraging.

We were better in the second half and should have made more of the pressure.

[Mr Diggles]

Devil's advocate - maybe it was the right team but the wrong game to decide to switch to the line-up. It might have been far more useful 2 months ago, but up against a team that even a shade or two lesser than previous incarnations is still well above our level, it was inevitable that confidence for our boys would be an issue. Some of them haven't played much football recently after all.

That said there was simply no passion, no real determined effort, and clearly no belief in the team, which is simply unacceptable. In this league those qualities are a pre-requisite for a Man City team or a Wigan one, and certainly a Villa team.

I think by the time we play in 2012 we will be firmly in the shit, and I can't see how this nice but tactically inept manager can inspire the team to fight or play their way out of trouble.

Why isn't Clark playing? If we are going to lose it will be best to blood him, but recall that he is the best ball-playing centre-back or defensive midfielder we have.

Aside from missing the social side with my friends, I am simply ecstatic that I haven't bought my season ticket this year. Time to spend with family instead will be far more worthwhile this season (or for however long McLeish (and may be even Lerner, dare I say it) is around.