Stephen Ireland - Still has future.

[Merv]

Just to clarify, EffDee, when it comes to doing the same thing over and over again, that's what I'm expecting of McLeish - not what I'd do! He doesn't strike me as the kind of manager to stray too far from his default selection and set up.

[Mister E]

Just to clarify, EffDee, when it comes to doing the same thing over and over again, that's what I'm expecting of McLeish - not what I'd do! He doesn't strike me as the kind of manager to stray too far from his default selection and set up.

I think we're in agreement in most of this, Merv, except for the subject of this post.
To clarify, I think Stephen Ireland is a self-obsessed little gobshite who adds no value to the squad and would not be in most people's first-choice MF.

[Merv]

Quite possibly - I'm not even sure whether Ireland has a future with us or not. I just struggle to qualify the comments that he's performing 'brilliantly' in training with the fact that he's almost totally dropped out of the first team picture.

I guess at the heart of it all is my frustration that McLeish isn't regularly picking the players I'd like to see in the starting X1; I believe we could have a decent footballing side if the manager made different choices.

[Chris Smith]

Ireland, looking good in training with a few flicks and tricks when there's nobody tackling him isn't the same as doing in the first team. I bet he's a great 5 a side player.

Have we picked the same side 2 games running? It seems obvious to me that he's still trying to come up with the best combination for the midfield which has been hampered by the non-availability of Jenas the only one at the club who McLeish himself chose.

[Monty]

Ireland, looking good in training with a few flicks and tricks when there's nobody tackling him isn't the same as doing in the first team. I bet he's a great 5 a side player.

Have we picked the same side 2 games running? It seems obvious to me that he's still trying to come up with the best combination for the midfield which has been hampered by the non-availability of Jenas the only one at the club who McLeish himself chose.

He's still choosing to play Heskey in midfield out of the options given to him. You can say he's only made one signing of his own there, you can debate the merits and faults of Makoun and the wisdom of letting him go, but the playing of Heskey in midfield remains unfathomable.

[Chris Smith]

Ireland, looking good in training with a few flicks and tricks when there's nobody tackling him isn't the same as doing in the first team. I bet he's a great 5 a side player.

Have we picked the same side 2 games running? It seems obvious to me that he's still trying to come up with the best combination for the midfield which has been hampered by the non-availability of Jenas the only one at the club who McLeish himself chose.

He's still choosing to play Heskey in midfield out of the options given to him. You can say he's only made one signing of his own there, you can debate the merits and faults of Makoun and the wisdom of letting him go, but the playing of Heskey in midfield remains unfathomable.

It isn't unfathomable, although I accept that's the fashionable word around here.

 It might not be what you or I would do but there's reason to it. With Jenas unavailable and Bannan taking himself out of the picture recently his options weren't great. He adds a physical presence that takes attention away from Bent, he's experienced, he provides a good front post shield when we're defending corners, he's unselfish and he works extremely hard.

[Monty]

Ireland, looking good in training with a few flicks and tricks when there's nobody tackling him isn't the same as doing in the first team. I bet he's a great 5 a side player.

Have we picked the same side 2 games running? It seems obvious to me that he's still trying to come up with the best combination for the midfield which has been hampered by the non-availability of Jenas the only one at the club who McLeish himself chose.

He's still choosing to play Heskey in midfield out of the options given to him. You can say he's only made one signing of his own there, you can debate the merits and faults of Makoun and the wisdom of letting him go, but the playing of Heskey in midfield remains unfathomable.

It isn't unfathomable, although I accept that's the fashionable word around here.

 It might not be what you or I would do but there's reason to it. With Jenas unavailable and Bannan taking himself out of the picture recently his options weren't great. He adds a physical presence that takes attention away from Bent, he's experienced, he provides a good front post shield when we're defending corners, he's unselfish and he works extremely hard.

We still look rubbish at defending corners (I struggle to think of one he's actually headed away, and I do check), he's actually so far removed from Bent and so immobile that his 'physical' attributes and hard work are largely useless, his experience counts for nothing if he's not performing on the pitch, his presence in the team is largely to have a target to hit, which is definitely our number one way of losing the ball, and fundamentally he's a negative selection in a midfield which already contained two holding players and very little link to our forward players, inviting pressure and making the likelihood of scoring less and of conceding greater. Given the at least mobile presence of Delph and Ireland, both with more ability to link with forwards, I find his selection unfathomable (a word I actually took a moment to choose, I hadn't realised it was so fashionable).

[Merv]

I bet he is. He's a good footballer in that sense but, again, perhaps not the sort that McLeish is readily going to select. I don't think Bannan's being/been used that extensively or effectively yet, he's in and out of the side and always was anyway even before the incident.

The team changes, sure (not always in a good way). But I've certainly seen enough of his selections to worry that perhaps some of the more creative footballers in the current squad aren't getting much involvement. But I'm happy if that's just a concern of mine and others are more optimistic about the general make-up of the team and the style we're playing or heading towards.

[Chris Smith]

I bet he is. He's a good footballer in that sense but, again, perhaps not the sort that McLeish is readily going to select. I don't think Bannan's being/been used that extensively or effectively yet, he's in and out of the side and always was anyway even before the incident.

The team changes, sure (not always in a good way). But I've certainly seen enough of his selections to worry that perhaps some of the more creative footballers in the current squad aren't getting much involvement. But I'm happy if that's just a concern of mine and others are more optimistic about the general make-up of the team and the style we're playing or heading towards.

Not so much optimistic, Merv, as giving him the benefit of the doubt as he clearly signed Jenas because he identified an issue in central midfield and, as yet, has not had the opportunity to use him.

[Iago]

He adds a physical presence that takes attention away from Bent, he's experienced, he provides a good front post shield when we're defending corners, he's unselfish and he works extremely hard.

How does he take attention away from Bent? He is in a creative role and should be providing for Bent, he has not done that in the previous games.

Heskey usually falls down under a challenge, so I would question Emile's physical presence.

Sorry Chris, but he needs to be replaced by a player who can create up top.

[Chris Smith]

He adds a physical presence that takes attention away from Bent, he's experienced, he provides a good front post shield when we're defending corners, he's unselfish and he works extremely hard.

How does he take attention away from Bent? He is in a creative role and should be providing for Bent, he has not done that in the previous games.

Heskey usually falls down under a challenge, so I would question Emile's physical presence.

Sorry Chris, but he needs to be replaced by a player who can create up top.

Not for the first time you're missing the point. I'm not saying I want him in the side just putting forward the reasons why he, sometimes, plays.

Next time he plays watch who picks him up on corners, free kicks, clearances from the keeper etc. It's a centre half thereby taking one of them away from Bent and he does use his strength to hold the ball up. There are plenty of valid reasons to criticise him without making things up because you are unable to accept that he does have some useful attributes.

[Iago]

Not for the first time you're missing the point. I'm not saying I want him in the side just putting forward the reasons why he, sometimes, plays.

Next time he plays watch who picks him up on corners, free kicks, clearances from the keeper etc. It's a centre half thereby taking one of them away from Bent and he does use his strength to hold the ball up. There are plenty of valid reasons to criticise him without making things up because you are unable to accept that he does have some useful attributes.

I perfectly understood your point, do not demean me. I have watched him play and there is no genuine reason for him starting games.

EH is in that role to provide for the striker(s), not be an extra man for defensive set pieces. And BTW, he was used in that manner for the City game and we still conceded from set pieces. Sadly, Heskey has no purpose other than a squad role. Heskey playing in his current position typifies AM.

[Clampy]

Heskey is ok as an extra striker, he was great for Houiller early part of last season, but as a midfielder he offers absolutley ziltch. I bet Fergie is praying we pick him on Saturday. Man Utd's defenders will have their easiest game for a while if he does.

[Iago]

Not so much optimistic, Merv, as giving him the benefit of the doubt as he clearly signed Jenas because he identified an issue in central midfield and, as yet, has not had the opportunity to use him.

He signed Hleb and placed him on the bench for the majority of last season.

[KevinGage]

I take the point about accommodating two players like Ireland and Bannan in the same side.  Common sense tells you that it probably shouldn't work, and having at least two more combative players in the middle of the park would give us better balance.

But what looks fine in theory often falls apart when it's tried on the park. Conversely, something that looks like it shouldn't work sometimes does.

I've heard it mentioned a few times this season that our players haven't been cute enough to read some of Bannan's passes. I heard similar last season on the odd occasions Ireland contributed and looked up for it.

I accept I'm probably reading a lot into one game (not even one full game, more like one half), but there was enough promise there to suggest they are on each others wavelength, and I'd rather persist with that for a period of time than the disjointed mess that has  charatersised a large chunk of the season to date. 

Go with what seems to work and build from that accordingly.  Gabby is in decent form, Bent will -with service- always get goals.  Bannan and Ireland look like they could work well together, then fill in the blanks in midfield from there.