Tottenham Hotspur v Aston Villa Post-Match Thread

[Concrete John]

I genuinely and honestly think Swansea will show us up on Sunday - they look the complete opposite to us. Well drilled at the back, disciplined, vibrant, mobile, playing to their strengths.

I remember some very similar things being said about Nowrich before we played them.

Yes, I may have been one of those posters who predicted a difficult match. I think that's what we got.

The difficulty was of our own making in letting in a sloppy 2nd - prior to that there was some 'ole football' going on just after Jenas came on and him and Petrov were keeping the ball superbly.

[Merv]

I wasn't - I was using it as a reference to the way Swansea were being made out to be some footballing powerhouse we didn't have a chance against.

Never described Swansea as anywhere near a footballing powerhouse - but they're a newly promoted team playing well, particularly at home, and I think we'll be in for a very difficult afternoon. QPR embarrassed us at their place, I can see the same happening here if we're not careful. It's difficult to approach many games with confidence at the moment.

[Ryu]

Maz is right last night was an indefensible display from a group of professional footballers. And you can't give the manager high marks either. I just think calling for the managers head is wrong and sacking him would be counter-productive.   

[Merv]

Agree to a certain extent Ryu - calling for the manager's head is also largely pointless, as I think he's here for the long term.

[Monty]

Thought I'd give it a good half a day or so for it to sink in and try to analyse it in a more balanced and calm manner. On balance, though, it's hard to take anything at all from that performance.

The problems started from our fourth touch of the ball - Stan launching one up to Heskey on the left wing in a move that I have never seen work ever. That we didn't immediately lose the ball was rather down to luck, as every single other time we hoofed it, we lost it, inviting pressure onto us.

Which is basically the fundamental problem with McLeish - not only does he not seem to understand that hoofball is a poor attacking strategy, he also doesn't seem to get that it's a poor defensive one. Yes, Spurs are better than us, that absolutely goes without saying, but when you give them quite as easy a time with the ball as we did that hardly lessens the gap between the sides. If we'd been more patient in possession, waited more than just simply hoofing downfield, we could have done much better. Spurs are fantastic on the ball, but with players like Adebayor, Lennon and VDV are hardly the most dynamic pressers without it. The opportunity to hold the ball and lessen the likelihood of them getting chances was there - but instead, we just limply gave them the ball and the chance to attack us.

As for the goals, the first one belies the myth about Eck: he's not a good negative coach, just a negative one. I've said it before, but it's notable how goalkeepers' reputations always seem to go up in the sides he's managed, meaning a large concession of shots and chances. The set-piece organisation was abysmal. If you're going to do that style of football, you must at least do it well, and we're still so vulnerable at set-pieces.

The second was a bad defensive error, sure. But this is the problem with McLeish's style of disorganised, thrusty, blocky Dunkirk re-enactment defence: you are constantly relying on the luck of the bounce, and if you invite that much pressure by being so lax and profligate with the ball, sooner or later the luck will go the other way.

In short, it's not just not good enough, it's the exact opposite of everything we should be doing. I hate to say a phrase as cliched as "he doesn't know what he's doing", but in this case you really have to wonder. He's doing the opposite of what almost every successful manager given the same relative level of resources is doing and it's just not working.

[Compass]

Maz is right last night was an indefensible display from a group of professional footballers. And you can't give the manager high marks either. I just think calling for the managers head is wrong and sacking him would be counter-productive.

Yet again I'm seeing the same poor excuse.

McLeish has the power to pick the players he wants. Collins has been in awful form for ages, yet he automatically gets picked over Clark who should be given a chance.

Collins will be picked for the Swansea game and if he makes the same errors, are you going to blame it on the players or this time are you gonna say "hang on a second? it's the manager who picks these players, why is he still picking players who are off form?"

And I don't see why can't we try and get rid of the manager? He has 2 relegations after all, he'll no doubt take us down if we don't do something about it. Liverpool made an effort of getting rid of their manager/owners, why can't we do the same? Why is your answer (as well as others) just to bend over?

[Concrete John]

I wasn't - I was using it as a reference to the way Swansea were being made out to be some footballing powerhouse we didn't have a chance against.

Never described Swansea as anywhere near a footballing powerhouse - but they're a newly promoted team playing well, particularly at home, and I think we'll be in for a very difficult afternoon. QPR embarrassed us at their place, I can see the same happening here if we're not careful. It's difficult to approach many games with confidence at the moment.

You'll have to help me out here - how is a 1-1 draw away from home embarassing?  Looking at QPRs form since, it's a respectable result for everyone bar the top clubs.

[dave.woodhall]

Why is your answer (as well as others) just to bend over?

How many times are you going to come out with variations on "If you don't moan as much as me you're not a proper supporter"?

[Compass]

I wasn't - I was using it as a reference to the way Swansea were being made out to be some footballing powerhouse we didn't have a chance against.

Never described Swansea as anywhere near a footballing powerhouse - but they're a newly promoted team playing well, particularly at home, and I think we'll be in for a very difficult afternoon. QPR embarrassed us at their place, I can see the same happening here if we're not careful. It's difficult to approach many games with confidence at the moment.

You'll have to help me out here - how is a 1-1 draw away from home embarassing?  Looking at QPRs form since, it's a respectable result for everyone bar the top clubs.

He didn't say 1-1 was embarassing. It was the manner of the we played. The first half of the game (apart from last 5 mins) they were all over us. We couldn't even get out of half against a promotion team. The second half was abit better, but then we fell back into the black hole and allowed them to attack, attack, attack.

We've pretty much done this the whole season. The only reason why it hasn't been as noticeable is because we've hardly played any of the top 6 teams, you know teams better than us. Even when we played Everton, they were all over us.

[Mister E]

I can't see massive changes coming for Swansea, so I'm going to predict

Given
Hutton Clark Dunne Warnock
Herd
Petrov Jenas
NZogbia               Gabby
Bent

I think you're nprobalby right - and it will do a lot better than last night - but we will still get mullered down the flanks.

I support the view that the back four should be changed, with Herd, Cuellar and Clark coming alongside Warnock. The MF would then comprise Petrov, Bannan, Jenas and Delph, with GA and DB upfront. N'Zog to come on for Petrov as he tires.
Won't happen, though.

[Merv]

I can help you out.

The end result was acceptable, I agree. In fact, more than a bit frustrating, given the late own goal, that we didn't win.

But the performance... did you watch the game (not asking in an insulting way, just asking)? We were awful, John. QPR were all over us, we could barely pass the ball in the first half, in fact we barely crossed the halfway line. We nicked a penalty from nowhere but created hardly a thing ourselves.

QPR could and should have been three or four up by half-time. If anyone else on here thinks we played even reasonably on that day, please let me know. We've nicked points here and there to keep us out of the lower reaches of the table but it's performances like this that really leave me struggling for optimism.

[Compass]

Why is your answer (as well as others) just to bend over?

How many times are you going to come out with variations on "If you don't moan as much as me you're not a proper supporter"?

I'm actually concerned the way McLeish has been playing us all this season and I'm not going to make excuses for him when he's already turning us into the new Blues. You may be fine with that, but I have a problem with it.

[Ryu]

--- Quote from: Compass on Today at 02:50:29 PM ---Why is your answer (as well as others) just to bend over?

--- End quote ---


What is it with you and people taking it up the arse?

[taylorsworkrate]

Agree to a certain extent Ryu - calling for the manager's head is also largely pointless, as I think he's here for the long term.

We can't afford to sack him anytime soon. (I do think he should be given more time, but the negatives have comfortably outweighed the positives so far and my patience is running out)

Doubling his wages seems increasingly crazy.  Randy's made a huge rod for his own back.

[Concrete John]

Maybe it's just me then, but I thought we defended well and weathered the storm of their early onslaught, which you'd expect from a newly promoted side still running on the adrenaline of being in the PL.  We grew into the game and were worth the point in the end, mainly for how we defended.

I know I'm in the minority in that opinion.