Tottenham Hotspur v Aston Villa Post-Match Thread

[Risso]

James Collins is worth a special mention for being spectacularly crap tonight.

[john e]

i predict sub 30k crowds at VP this season if thats whats on offer

[SheffieldVillain]

James Collins is worth a special mention for being spectacularly crap tonight.

I think you're being overly kind there.

[Compass]

You can moan about McLeish's team selection as much as you want (and to be fair, it was crap), but these are the players now who weren't at fault throughout the Houllier era, and the players who weren't responsible for the turgid crap of the second half of MoN's last season. At what point do Richard Dunne, Stephen Warnock, James Collins and others actually get to shoulder the blame for what is actually their shite performances? You know, in return for their £50k a week, that kind of thing.

We have been told in numerous interviews with Dunne, Warnock and Collins that the defensive problems last year were because Houllier made us change things, Houllier was a nasty man, Houllier made us train when we wanted to go for a pint (I might be paraphrasing a little here). So why now that Houllier has gone can't we clear a simple ball from the box without falling over it, and why, every time one of our defenders passes the ball, does it end up with the opposition.

Yes, McLeish got things wrong, yes Houllier got things wrong, but the fundamental problem at Villa is that we desperately need to get rid of the core of our squad. I really can't ever remember a Villa team before so packed with so many players I despise.

Yet it's McLeish who selects those awful defenders. It's McLeish who convinced Dunne to stay, wants Collins to have an extended contract and bought Hutton into the team. I mean Herd actually got man of the match against Wolves when he was right back, but then he was dropped for Hutton who has been shit ever since he came here. Wtf is that bollocks?

It's funny how people defended McLeish because of his defensive traits. Erm...what? Where are they? We're defending worse than we did under Houllier and Houllier didn't really address it becasue these talentless players can't be helped.

Man, we should have just kept Houllier. Yes, he was ill, but G Mac who could have done mainly the men coaching where as Houllier could have worked out what we needed to be done to take us forward with his strong pull in the transfer market.

[Phil from the upper holte]

The people who are saying first time I've doubted him...where have you been? Worse than I expected?? How could that be?  Really piss poor 6 defenders, heskey and given leaves 3 players who weren't defensive? Is this what we want people??

[midnite]

Agree with you sheffieldvillian, i think the common factor here is the players. We've had a few managers now all having defensive problems. Only thing it can now be is the players themselves just are not good enough.

In saying that, that wasn't the problem with tonight. AM and his tactics were a massive issue for me

[Greg N'Ash]

You can moan about McLeish's team selection as much as you want (and to be fair, it was crap), but these are the players now who weren't at fault throughout the Houllier era, and the players who weren't responsible for the turgid crap of the second half of MoN's last season. At what point do Richard Dunne, Stephen Warnock, James Collins and others actually get to shoulder the blame for what is actually their shite performances? You know, in return for their £50k a week, that kind of thing.

We have been told in numerous interviews with Dunne, Warnock and Collins that the defensive problems last year were because Houllier made us change things, Houllier was a nasty man, Houllier made us train when we wanted to go for a pint (I might be paraphrasing a little here). So why now that Houllier has gone can't we clear a simple ball from the box without falling over it, and why, every time one of our defenders passes the ball, does it end up with the opposition.

Yes, McLeish got things wrong, yes Houllier got things wrong, but the fundamental problem at Villa is that we desperately need to get rid of the core of our squad. I really can't ever remember a Villa team before so packed with so many players I despise.

yep. thats nearer the truth. too many gutless journeymen looking for an easy ride. Still, i reckon the spanish squad would have struggled with that team set-up

[Broughty-Villian]

Abject. Piss poor. Embarassed.

Risso: Only collins??? Bent, dunne, gabby, Petrov.

We looked better for 8 mins with Delph on the pitch

Heskey!!!!!!!FFS

[PaulWinch again]

I think most of us could accept the current situation if we actually tried to play football. This level of performance combined with the incompetent horrendous hoof ball is just unacceptable in every single way.

[Louzie0]

Thing is to bounce back and sink the swans next week!
I thought what the lads were asked to do worked in the second half for a bit.  Also, we've been complaining about the defence and they didn't concede another one, for the whole second half. 

Just - what on earth happened with the counter-attack?  They'll only work out what happened when they get a chance to see it back.  I'm gutted that they seemed mainly to man the barricades for the last 20-odd minutes, shades of the first half.

Everybody has a game like this but it's how the players respond and what the manager does and says to them afterwards that makes the difference next time, at least that's how it works in the club I used to play for every saturday, in a local league*.  I'm hoping that AM and the squad rise to the occasion.

And while we're on the subject, surely nobody believes that AMc said, 'go out there and be abject.'  Look at the beginning of the match thread.  Nobody is forecasting gloom and doom after reading the team, there.  Plans went wrong. Hopefully the players can get over it and be better next time.  I'm very happy with Chris Herd - what a cracker he's turned out to be.  Come on Villa!! 

Time for another glass of chenin blanc.

* Ok it was netball but the principle's the same!

[SheffieldVillain]

You can moan about McLeish's team selection as much as you want (and to be fair, it was crap), but these are the players now who weren't at fault throughout the Houllier era, and the players who weren't responsible for the turgid crap of the second half of MoN's last season. At what point do Richard Dunne, Stephen Warnock, James Collins and others actually get to shoulder the blame for what is actually their shite performances? You know, in return for their £50k a week, that kind of thing.

We have been told in numerous interviews with Dunne, Warnock and Collins that the defensive problems last year were because Houllier made us change things, Houllier was a nasty man, Houllier made us train when we wanted to go for a pint (I might be paraphrasing a little here). So why now that Houllier has gone can't we clear a simple ball from the box without falling over it, and why, every time one of our defenders passes the ball, does it end up with the opposition.

Yes, McLeish got things wrong, yes Houllier got things wrong, but the fundamental problem at Villa is that we desperately need to get rid of the core of our squad. I really can't ever remember a Villa team before so packed with so many players I despise.

Yet it's McLeish who selects those awful defenders. It's McLeish who convinced Dunne to stay, wants Collins to have an extended contract and bought Hutton into the team. I mean Herd actually got man of the match against Wolves when he was right back, but then he was dropped for Hutton who has been shit ever since he came here. Wtf is that bollocks?

It's funny how people defended McLeish because of his defensive traits. Erm...what? Where are they? We're defending worse than we did under Houllier and Houllier didn't really address it becasue these talentless players can't be helped.

Man, we should have just kept Houllier. Yes, he was ill, but G Mac who could have done mainly the men coaching where as Houllier could have worked out what we needed to be done to take us forward with his strong pull in the transfer market.

OK, so it's MoN's fault for signing them, Houllier's fault for selecting them and McLeish's fault for keeping them. Nothing is ever the players' fault, ever.

[Nirog72]

Oh dear. The night I persuade the girlfriend to get Sky Sports and we sit through that!

Whilst they have not been fabulous by any stretch of the imagination what the f*ck have Delph, N'Zogbia, Clark, Bannan (driving thing aside), and Gardner (no chance at all yet this season) done not to get in that midfield and defence. The Manager's a joke and if I was any of these guys I'd want out in January. If I was Bent I'd already have my agent looking for other clubs. How much fun can it be having no supply line and a manager who doesn't actually try to win games.

Maybe we are trying to get relegated so we can blood the younger players in the Championship. Tonight was a disgrace, I don't think the players with the possible exception of Herd demonstrated the fight required but you have to say, when faced with that selection and tactics you'd have no idea as a player what the f*ck the manager was trying to achieve.

Really really depressing. McLeish should give the kids a chance and play people in their correct positions or f*ck off.

[Risso]

The people who are saying first time I've doubted him...where have you been? Worse than I expected??

That's a fair point.  The best I can say about McLeish is that he hasn't been quite as bad I expected, but still pretty hopeless.  It's turning out pretty much as I expected.  Lots of draws, getting battered by the big teams and picking up the odd win here and there against the worst teams in the league to make sure we don't quite go down. 

[OzVilla]

For a while now i've been conceding games against the Top 6 as they are so far out of sight it's not funny.  However, i'm not paid by the Club to Manage the team.  When the Manager starts conceeding these games the alarm bells should ring.  That's what we did tonight.

And Yes, McLeish should get plenty of stick but the way Lerner gets away with it too by many is strange imo.  Lovely bloke with the right intensions I'm certain but the last 18 months have been an unmitigated disaster.

We may not get relegated this season, there are far worse than us in this league, but I reckon we might be a championship side in the next 2-3 years unless something gives.

[mrfuse]

James Collins is worth a special mention for being spectacularly crap tonight.

I think you're being overly kind there.

Ive been saying that all season rather than Hutton id say hes been worse which i know isint saying much but i would like to see Clark for Collins